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  • ebilg - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    To avoid all the headaches with UHD Bly-rays you could just get an Xbox instead. The studios don't seem to care about 4K Blu-ray on PCs. Plus the Xbox also does Hulu in 4K.
  • ddrіver - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    It's obvious the "budget setup" isn't actually a budget setup because the guy just accepts to be "sponsored" with equipment that blows any budget: it goes from ~$470 to ~$1000. That's over $500 extra. On a budget! So who cares about the BR player? It can just be sponsored by somebody.

    @GaneshTS & AT what other budget builds can you do with expensive sponsored stuff? I was thinking on an article on how to get free gaming builds... from your parents.
  • ganeshts - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Dude, seriously? The only equipment that was sponsored was the Denon AVR, and it was clearly specified. Everything else was out of my own pocket (other than the PCs that come in for review on a revolving basis)
  • ddrіver - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    That wasn't about getting hidden stuff or anything like that. It was about adding $500 and still calling it a budget build. A $1000 receiver isn't part of any budget build. It doesn't make sense.
  • Gasaraki88 - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    So you want a home theater system but don't want to get an AV receiver? You complaining about a $500 receiver? That's the cheapest you can get that supports DV passthrough and all the other new tech. If you don't want good sound you don't need a receiver so you can subtract that out but then it not a "Home Theater" then.
  • Icehawk - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    Not even remotely true, plenty of recievers in the ~$400 range offer the sams functions. After my last two $800+ recievers crapped out after two years I will no longer put my money in them.
  • Crazyeyeskillah - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    You are completely out of touch with your readers. There are plenty of options on the market that will deliver a great experience without dumping $500 into a receiver. While it's fun to piss away money on a home theater system, you don't have to blow all your money on something that won't give a perceivable benefit whatsoever to the average consumer. The extra $500 could make up the difference towards a 55" OLED display, or an entry level projector. Your priorities are clearly bias and deserve to be in question. Most of your articles are fair but this is really a preposterous entry without question.

    I would have honestly love to seen a review of some entry level projectors. Virtually everyone wants to know more about the bulbs, longevity, brightness, clarity, and other factors. Speakers are pretty much the no brainer of tech, they either work or they don't. If you want more channels just increase the blank.1 you have setup.

    Even just building a really versatile box for future proof playback would have been sufficient. People tend to geek out on their displays in their own way.
  • FreckledTrout - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    @Crazyeyeskillah, I disagree. Any adults here who can afford an OLED TV would love a decent quality home theater which will cost at minimum $2000 but many people just don't know it. My nephew who is 28 has a good soundbar system and really didn't understand why I spend $2.5K on speakers and a receiver so we watched a movie, pearl harbor. When your company leans to duck the plane dropping bombs, priceless. Good home theater isn't something most people understand but once they have heard it they know what they are missing.
  • SunnyHours - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link

    There are other ways of having a decent speaker system without dishing out 500$US on a "home theater" receiver...especially if you don't plan on getting a decent set of Surround Sound speakers, which are not cheap...we are talking at least another 500$ up to 2000$ or more...and just for speakers.

    Instead, why not get a nice set of powered Bookshelf speakers like AudioEngine, Swan, HiVi, M-Audio, Kanto, Edifier and even Klipsch have good speakers that don't need a Receiver/Amplifier and generally have a 3.5mm cable so it's compatible with most anything, there are also some who do have RCA input(s). In this list you'll find all kinds of prices and whether you want a 2.0 speaker system or a 7.2 speaker system.

    Also, another nice option if you have many things to connect, you can always just get a nice and simple 2.1 Sound System with a receiver (NAD, Yamaha, Denon, Harmon Kardon and others that don't come to mind should serve you well) and a pair of regular Bookshelf Speakers (Same brands mentioned before plus a couple others...just go to your biggest audio dealer close by and try them out before you buy them...if you can try both the receiver and speakers all the better!)

    The 3rd option would be to go with Headphones!
    If you want to head to head, speaker system vs Headphone system...of the same price, you'll always get way more sound for your money out of a simple headphone DAC/Amplifier combo and some Headphones or a DAC, headphone Amplifier and Headphones.
    Whatever you do, please, do NOT encourage Bose. They sell overpriced stuff and it's just a really bad deal all around.
    If you want more information and to ask questions to people who really know their stuff, head over to the Head-Fi Forums. They really specialize in headphones, but being Audiophiles usually means you'll also want good sounding speakers to be able to share it with others, and also to mix it up a little.
  • prerich - Friday, July 27, 2018 - link

    Bravo!!!!
  • Azethoth - Monday, January 1, 2018 - link

    Why don't you go read an article on _not_ home theater, and regale everyone with how awesome the sound from your shitty TV speakers are. Home theater is simply not for your budget, but don't pretend everyone is living in mom's basement.

    This article may be out of touch with the 5 of you, but it is not out of touch with the rest of the readers.

    Why not go whine in articles about supercars about how they are out of touch with 99.999999% of the planet. Oh noes! I still want to read about them though.
  • Sivar - Wednesday, January 3, 2018 - link

    Most Anandtech readers are tech-savvy, but not tech experts and have normal homes, eyes, ears, and middle-level income (of those in the United States).
    Talk of an OLED TV or projector tells me that it is you who is out of touch with readers, and it doesn't help that your statement to the author was inappropriately rude.

    OLED TVs have an objectively better picture quality, but are much more expensive and the difference is not that noticeable to most people.

    Projectors are great (I use one) but are impractical for many (most?) homes because they need light control and, for good pricing, a large flat wall for the screen.

    Regarding speakers, if the implication is that there is no noticeable difference between them, then yI suspect you are not at all an enthusiast of home theater. This isn't even a reasonable debate, it just leaves me dumbfounded. True that there is little difference between an extremely fancy speakers (say from Focal or Magico) and a good set of well-designed towers such as those from Ascend or JBL, and indeed the audio industry has a lot of snake oil like expensive cables and any Bose product, but to say that a speaker "works or it doesn't" proves little experience with sound systems, even in the sub-$500 range.
  • SunnyHours - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link

    Totally agree with you there!
    Especially your comment about Cables, Bose (I HATE BOSE!) and mostly the comment that "either a speaker works or it doesn't" that just really surprised me and made me wonder how this person can even entertain the idea of giving tips on a subject you know nothing about...especially on the internet where people will put you on the spot and call you for being an ignorant person and at the same time being a "know it all".

    Next thing he will say is that "Vinyls sound like crap and cassettes were a much improved product" LOL.
  • Dug - Friday, January 5, 2018 - link

    He's not out of touch. A good balanced receiver will last much longer in a system than video. Most people upgrade video (tv's, monitors, etc), than they do sound. Projectors don't really fall into the family room scenario either. Usually too much light, sound, maintenance, setup, etc. Plus there's no real 4k hdr affordable projectors out.
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    "So you want a home theater system but don't want to get an AV receiver?"
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Why not?

    I have a 35 Watt dual-core Sandy Bridge with optical audio output to my Digital EQ (Behringer DEQ24/96) and Balanced XLR to each JBL LSR305 powered monitor

    (Behinger AD converters sound like crap but with an optical input, it sounds Fantastical)
    Much better than a Denon receiver I do believe

    Sure, it's completely Gimped when its running Windows 10 DRM garbage

    But, if I want to run 4K on a Gimped System, I can boot to 7 / 8.1 or Spyware Platform 10

    I'm running Windows XP right now so I don't need to worry about Bluescreens of Death, malware, or Viruses like I do with Spyware 10

    Burns BlueRay Disks fine and can boot to a stock install of XP in 3-4 seconds from a Samsung 850 Pro

    Any computer newer than Sandy Bridge is nothing more than a Locked Down Gaming Console with a web browser attached and they make for really piss poor home theater setups

    "Personal" Computers died with Sandy Bridge!
    You are just renting a JukeBox
  • Azethoth - Monday, January 1, 2018 - link

    I am missing the part where your "fantastical" Behringer DEQ24/96 decodes Dolby Surround.

    You are failing at Home Theater. There are standards. One of them is surround sound.

    Stereo is for listening to old timey music. I am willing to put my Denon in surround stereo up against your stereo thing anytime. I will also pretend that Denon is better, except it would actually be true unlike your imaginings where an optical in somehow makes a difference.

    Just so you know, hard science and engineering tells us that an optical in connection means you 100% do not have what this article is about: the more part of 4k blu ray. Atmos does not fit into optical. Hell, 7.1 and 9.1 surround did not fit.

    So you and the rest here are just bloviating without saying anything relevant to the topic.

    tl;dr If it is beyond your budget, quit whining and read the follow up article next year. Everything will be cheaper and better.
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Monday, January 1, 2018 - link

    "I am missing the part where your "fantastical" Behringer DEQ24/96 decodes Dolby Surround.

    You are failing at Home Theater. There are standards. One of them is surround sound."
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There is no "Standard" to Home Theater!

    Surround Sound is one of many so called "Standards"

    Your "Budget" demands "Your Standards"

    3.1 / 5.1 / 7.1 / 9.1 are simply additions to the 3.0 "Standard" that I created over 30 years ago

    They do not Image a "Standard" stereo output as well as mine and yet you claim "They" are the "Standard"

    Advertising propaganda has taught you well

    Now go forth and spew nonsense

    A "Budget" Home Theater can be whatever you want it to be

    Racing Stripes and RGB lighting may cost extra
  • Reflex - Monday, January 1, 2018 - link

    I am unclear on how your setup will do positional audio in a home theater setup. For instance, if I play back DD5.1 content, will your setup put the appropriate audio and effects behind a viewer? If I play Dolby Atmos or DTS X content, will it additionally place the appropriate audio above the viewer's head? If so, how are you handling the decode operation for those standards to translate them to your proprietary speaker number and arrangement?

    Thanks!
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Tuesday, January 2, 2018 - link

    "If I play Dolby Atmos or DTS X content, will it additionally place the appropriate audio above the viewer's head? If so, how are you handling the decode operation for those standards to translate them to your proprietary speaker number and arrangement?"
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I support my original "Reference Standard" which preceded Atmos and DTS X

    I do not support other "Non-Standards" which came later

    The only way a "Non-Standard" Home Theater experience can match the "Stereo" Imaging accuracy of my Reference "Standard" is to steal my design

    If Dolby or anyone else can claim to match the Imaging accuracy of my Reference Design, then there are really only two possibilities here that I can see

    A: They stole my design
    or
    B: They are Liars

    There either ONE Reference, or there is no reference

    Choose Now!
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Tuesday, January 2, 2018 - link

    There is either ONE Reference, or there is no reference at all
  • Reflex - Tuesday, January 2, 2018 - link

    You are not answering my question:

    If I play back content that is encoded in DD5.1, 7.1 or Atmos, will your equipment do the proper object placement so that I get a sound effect in the appropriate location?

    It is an important detail, if you cannot do that with the material that is available today, your solution is a solution for an audience of one. If it can do that, I am curious how it accomplishes it with what you are describing as essentially a 3.1 setup and with no Dolby or DTS license.
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Tuesday, January 2, 2018 - link

    "what you are describing as essentially a 3.1 setup and with no Dolby or DTS license."
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The original reference design was 3.0
    Moving the Bass speaker to a separate sub cab and calling it a 3.1 system makes zero sense

    No Dolby or DTS License is correct
    I do not support fake standards forged from a Real Standard

    If Dolby and DTS is as good as mine, they should get a License from me

    If you wish to play incompatible standards, be my guest
    As I have said, I do not support Lesser Quality, incompatible or forged Standards

    Dolby Vision is the same in that regard, as I or anyone else can easily create an "Open" Standard that is Visually the Equal of Dolby Vision without need for a Dolby License

    Being locked into a proprietary and lesser Standard is "your" choice / not mine!
  • Reflex - Tuesday, January 2, 2018 - link

    Then your setup is good only for you and content you produce, and for the purposes of the article and the discussion thread essentially meaningless. If you can't play back the content that is being produced accurately then it just isn't relevant to the discussion.

    I'm glad you enjoy your setup, I also enjoy mine.
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Wednesday, January 3, 2018 - link

    "Then your setup is good only for you and content you produce"
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You are correct
    I can produce content for anyone, and they can Lock it down with whichever proprietary standard they want for sale to people like you

    My content can be encoded in the standard of the week or whatever "standard" Dolby comes out with next year

    Yes, I wanted a system that can master for anyone!

    and you want the finished result in a proprietary format of your choice
    GOOD FOR YOU!

    we are both happy with what we have!
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Wednesday, January 3, 2018 - link

    My Home Audio setups are for creating frontal 2 and 3 channel Audio Imagery

    I am not interested in surround but I could easily add as many surround channels as the next standard can handle

    My focus is on audio production/mixing/mastering/Imaging

    yet they are all I need or want for Video / Home Theater as well

    All I really want is a great Audio Image in front, so I want what I have and I have what I want!

    It's right for ME!

    What works for you is also correct
    There is no wrong standard here
    You can believe in one standard, a hundred standards or none
  • wiyosaya - Friday, January 5, 2018 - link

    I choose C: You are a troll!
  • Aspernari - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Everything came out of your pocket, except several thousand dollars worth of stuff you recommended because you didn't have to pay for it, so it had no budgetary cost to you.

    Would you have really bought the $500 receiver instead of a suitable HDMI switch (if you didn't have enough HDMI ports for all your 4k sources) and using ARC or optical out from the TV with your existing receiver?

    Your cost/benefit analysis is broken in this article. You keep trying to defend it, but it's not defensible.
  • ganeshts - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    The $430 receiver was what I wanted in the build. That is what I was ready to spend my budget on.

    What part of the sentence 'pick and choose from the list' did you not get in the concluding section?

    A HDMI switch will not do the job of the AVR.

    It is not a matter of defensible or not - I have presented what worked and what didn't, even with the sponsored equipment. I have presented alternatives also. I think $349 for the AVR driving a $700 TV is a very reasonable budget - incidentally, the same amounts that I spent back in 2008 with a Toshiba Regza 46" TV and a Onkyo TX-SR606.
  • Aspernari - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Regarding not understanding: I understand just fine. Your choices are poorly considered and presented. I'll restate from elsewhere: You recommend readers buy $200 worth of Bluray-related hardware and deal with BSODs and/or pursue beta drivers, among other issues.

    Regarding the receiver: I guess you just wanted a new one, since a budget option would have been a TOSLINK cable or other solution to get audio from the TV to your existing receiver, abandoning the HDMI ports on it, and making use of an HDMI switch if you were short on HDMI ports. Total investment of about $40. Sure, you lose some of the functionality of the obsolete receiver (which you could still use fine on 1080p and lower content), but you also save $349 on sale/$430 retail/$464.40ish after tax by not buying a new receiver. Or getting someone to sponsor you.

    " I have presented what worked and what didn't, even with the sponsored equipment." - You didn't present anything that I noticed that didn't work with the receiver. You state the inverse actually, "None of the issues encountered in the course of the evaluation presented in this piece could be attributed to the Denon AVR X3400H." - Which may well be true. But you also didn't evaluate the hardware you then recommend people go out and buy anyway, so the entire thing is moot. You're pushing hardware you didn't get your hands on, which just makes this all the more silly.

    Imagine publishing a hardware review article, giving something a good "buy" recommendation,but never actually using the product. Oh wait - you just did that.

    It's cool that you're going back and making edits based on the response here, but there's really two articles that should have written, crammed into this one:

    1) A blog post about stuff you bought and the setup you made, where you can squeeze in your promotional consideration for Denon.
    2) The testing you did and the issues you had navigating the current home theater market, focusing on 4k and HDR with HTPCs and high-end settop boxes.

    Are you going to actually review the $1000 receiver, or is this article all that they're getting out of it?
  • edzieba - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    "I guess you just wanted a new one, since a budget option would have been a TOSLINK cable or other solution to get audio from the TV to your existing receiver, "

    That's... not how things work. At all. Adding an S/PDIF cable is not going to magically allow transport of audio streams that:

    a) Are too high bitrate for S/PDIF (which cannot even carry 5.1 LPCM)
    b) Were developed decades after the S/PDIF standard

    It's as ludicrous and nonsensical a suggestion as installing an IDE cable to allow your SATA motherboard to use m.2 PCIe NVME drives.
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    Quote from edzieba.....
    "That's... not how things work. At all. Adding an S/PDIF cable is not going to magically allow transport of audio streams that:

    a) Are too high bitrate for S/PDIF (which cannot even carry 5.1 LPCM)
    b) Were developed decades after the S/PDIF standard "
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You seem to be forgetting that "I make the standards for MY Home Theater Setup" / Not You!
    I was designing multi-channel Audio Systems before "your" alleged standards existed

    You are once again thinking you must use what the market dictates, even when the market standard is pure CRAP!

    I build for "MY" standards which seem to be considerably higher than yours
  • gerz1219 - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    By that logic, why even bother adding an AVR? You could just use the built-in TV speakers.

    The point of this article is to lay out what equipment is necessary to enjoy all the latest home theater formats and features. Keeping your old 720p plasma from 2008 is always the "budget" solution for people who don't need the latest and greatest. That's irrelevant in the context of this article.
  • Gasaraki88 - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    You obviously don't know anything about new technology. TOSLINK is not going to pass Dolby Atmos and DTS:X from the TV to the receiver.

    So get out of here.
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    "You obviously don't know anything about new technology. TOSLINK is not going to pass Dolby Atmos and DTS:X from the TV to the receiver."
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    LOL, I obviously do

    I created better standards than Dolby ever did and was doing it before Dolby ever created their very first surround format

    I simply choose to get better audio imaging accuracy through carefully matched drivers, hybrid crossovers and components and custom circuitry

    I could easily encode audio to the vast majority of new technology "Standards" you ramble on about but can easily surpass the imaging accuracy of others by using a higher standard........

    My own!

    But for a "BUDGET" Home Theater system, I cannot personally make a better speaker than the JBL LSR305

    and I DO NOT need an AVR if I will not be using the pseudo Standards of others

    Tell me, if the "New Technology" you speak of is the "Standard" that everyone must use, then what EXACTLY is NEW and why so many "Standards" ?
  • Reflex - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    I can't wait to try all the content coming out in the BJM standard!
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    "I can't wait to try all the content coming out in the BJM standard!"
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It may be a long wait
    Much of the best tech fails in the audio market

    Blatant Lies, slick/false advertising and pseudo standards usually win in the marketplace

    Does that make them better?
  • Reflex - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    It's just not important. The content is being mastered in Dolby Atmos. It's reasonable to build a system that supports that so that I don't miss out. No clever component choices nor ideal speaker placement can change the fact that if I'm running a setup that isn't Atmos capable it won't generate Atmos effects when I play back such content. And quite frankly Atmos is the biggest leap in audio I've seen since 5.1 first hit.

    I'm glad what you have works for you. If that's all you need there is nothing wrong with that. For myself after trying Atmos at a friend's I wanted it at home and it was well worth the upgrade.
  • JSStewart - Thursday, January 4, 2018 - link

    Hokey smokes, who cares what a stupid moose troll thinks?

    I will go with the squirrel any day.
  • wiyosaya - Friday, January 5, 2018 - link

    It's called technological progress.
  • wiyosaya - Friday, January 5, 2018 - link

    or even DTS HD-MA or Dolby TrueHD
  • Gasaraki88 - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    You also obviously didn't read the title. It said 4K, HDR, UHD Blu-Ray. 1080p is not 4K nor HDR nor UHD-Bluray.

    You know what, you can say the TV is too expensive too. Get a 1080p 42" for $100. Get a old receiver for $150 that doesn't do Atmos. Get a cheap android tv box from China for $60. Too bad it can't do anything like the title said. You also wouldn't need a article at Anandtech because it doesn't even have a PC.
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    Gasaraki88
    You also obviously didn't read the title. It said......

    "A Budget Home Theater & PC Setup:" then listed the authors requirements instead of mine
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • StevoLincolnite - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    If you want 4k blu-ray on a budget. The Xbox One S is it. It's not even up for debate.

    And if you get Kinect, you don't even need to use any kind of controller.
  • Gasaraki88 - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    Stop looking at home theater articles if you are not looking to spend more than a $1000. You people just like complaining. Anandtech should just remove the comments section because it serves no purpose with these idiots around.
  • Makaveli - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    wow so much anger. There is a lot of cheap people on this site. Have most of you complaining every been in an Audio video store??

    Most of you need to stick to using your XBox for your HT experience.
  • Cygni - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Don't take it personally, ddriver enjoys posting dumb histrionics on every single AT article. Dude is an absolute nutter.
  • mr_tawan - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    And he has so much free time to respond to every single article here. I wish I could have this much free time myself!
  • lmcd - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Yea the dude has both time to post all his rubbish, and come back and search for replies in a comment system without notifications. That's dedication.
  • Mo3tasm - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    No seriously, this is a very bad comment system by all means, readability, comment organization, notifications, accounts etc.. I mean, it actually discourages one to write a comment. My free blog has a better one...
  • ddrіver - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    You have time to read AND reply to my comments. The difference is that you don't have anything to say and when you do it's either to insult someone else or to say something wrong.
  • ddrіver - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    If you have enough time reading them then I consider I'm doing a public service ;).
  • Notmyusualid - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    @ganeshts

    Try to ignore ddriver - he could have an argument in an empty room.
  • ddrіver - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    As long as it's a good argument? Why share a piece of crap with people when I can have a cake all by myself?
  • Notmyusualid - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    @ ddriver

    EVERY possible argument seems to be a 'good one' for you.

    Here, I think these people can help you:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dignitas_(Swiss_non-...
  • Duckeenie - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    Dude, seriously? Oxymoron?
  • Crazyeyeskillah - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    There is nothing budget about this review. You are painfully out of touch with your readership. I've been on this website since 2001 and honestly don't know why I bother reading anything that isn't written by Ryan at this point. Really a shame what is left for Anands legacy.
  • lmcd - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Given that the primary point of the article was the HTPC itself, there's literally no point in your comment except to continue your pattern of abuse. This is equivalent to talking about "storage on a budget" and using an expensive CPU to test the storage solution.
  • ddrіver - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    @lmcd: For your sake I hope you're pretty because you sure don't score any points on the IQ scale.

    The article is LITERALLY about "A Budget Home Theater & PC Setup". Not just "the HTPC itself". Reading comprehension fail. The article LITERALLY describes both. And although you may assume home theater is a wooden podium with really tiny actors putting on a play for you, it's actually not. A receiver is an integral part of a home theater. This is why the receiver is on the 3rd page of the article, before "the HTPC itself".

    Which brings us to my gripe: a $1000 receiver and a $2000 HTPC recommendation are not budget by any stretch of the definition. Which means the very first part of the title is complete and total BS. Kind of like your understanding of the text... or words in general. Literally.
  • Reflex - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    As usual reading comprehension is not your strong suite. The article lists two receiver options, one for $999 and one for $430. Nether is top tier nor considered 'expensive' in the receiver space. It offered three HTPC options, two which could be configured for $600-800, and one that was gaming focused for $2000. Again, perfectly reasonable budget options while highlighting the current cream of the HTPC gaming crop as an option for those with the budget.

    If I have a complaint about this article its that I'd have liked for them to offer one or two steps up on each category, for instance I chose to focus on the display for my setup and dropped $2k on a 65" OLED and then went cheap on the HTPC by using a XB1S.

    None of the recommendations listed would be considered expensive, or even mid-range for the home theater space. Not even the $2k HTPC, honestly although it was the closest item. Mid-range in this space starts at around $20k, and goes up to around $200k before you get to the actual crazy setups (real home theaters).

    But again, reading comprehension is not your strength, nor is knowledge of the areas in which you spout word salad like something sold by RonCo.
  • ddrіver - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    Oh Reflex, if only you paid more attention to making sense instead of just hurling whatever you pull out of your a$$.

    The fact that the author mentions another option once and then never describes anything related to it again is useless. If "mentioning" something was enough this article could very well have been a short table with the components needed. Basically the table on the last page (but one that actually lists the cheap AVR option).

    Secondly, reviewing a "budget" setup where the actual receiver used is $1000 redefines the meaning of "budget". The $2000 HTPC must be a stupid joke only the author gets. Google for "budget receivers" and tell me what the ENTIRE INTERNET believes "budget" means. But I'm sure you're smarter than everyone else... in your own tiny head.

    Only a bumbling moron can think these prices are "budget" because "midrange starts at $20000". And yeah, you refuse to actually read any of the comments that make good points here and prefer to focus on your own understanding of what I wrote, on rants about $20k midrange setups, and other stuff only you could think is reasonable. So you definitely fit that description.

    But but but wait. $200k is actually entry level pocket change, far from a "crazy setup" you seem to think it is. Compared to real home theater systems:
    https://www.theaterseatstore.com/most-expensive-ho...
    https://www.octaneseating.com/most-expensive-home-...

    But I need a good laugh. Keep going with your "knowledge". ;)
  • Reflex - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    Again, you made the claim he gave a "$2000 HTPC reccomendation" as part of the article. He did not. He merely listed it as an option for those focused on gaming. You lied. You can spew all sorts of crap into as many paragraphs as you wish, but you have no credibility when you willfully lie about the contents of articles simply to 'prove' whatever point you somehow think you are proving.

    As to the rest, spend some time on AVSForums and you'll learn what is budget, midrange and high end for a 'home theater', rather than what you think you can cobble together with your home CNC setup and 'custom networking protocols'.

    You are the biggest joke on this site since Steve Lake/Lord Raiden.
  • ddrіver - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    Guess they're not important enough to show up when you look for "budget receiver" on Google huh? Stop trying to cover up the mess. There are options between $100 and $1million. But almost every normal person will agree that $1000 is not "budget". That's why every article and review out there confirms what I'm saying: $300-$500 is what most regular people call "budget".

    But just to show you how unbelievably dumb you are I actually searched AVS Forum for "budget receiver". Guess what was the most commonly recommended price range... You probably guessed wrong. It's between $300-$500, with very, very, VERY few exceptions at $600-$700.

    Like this: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/gtsearch.php?q=budge...
    Or this: http://www.avsforum.com/?s=budget%20receiver

    Come on, keep making that point =)). I'm sure you can make a bigger ass of yourself.
  • ddrіver - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    BTW, you're so focused on insulting me and proving I'm wrong that you don't even realize your own arguments contradict your case. That's just pathetic. You're willing to make a fool of yourself and ignore all common sense and evidence in your attempts to just contradict me.

    A $1000 receiver isn't budget. It just isn't. Budget is another word for cheap but still reasonably OK. And I was actually looking for a good recommendation for a home theater setup, at least the receiver and speakers part. I expected some info about a budget setup. $1000 just for the receiver? Yeah, he mentions another cheaper (~$500) receiver but that doesn't help sine I basically have to read the details elsewhere. So how is that an article about a budget setup again?
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    ddriver, For BUDGET Home Theater......

    Check the comparisons and reviews of PreSonus Eris Powered 5 and 8" Monitors to the JBL LSR305 and 308 on Youtube (I chose the JBL)
    (Room size will determine which one you need)

    2nd place>
    KRK are too colored and boomy for me and Yamahas HS5 and HS8 are considerably more expensive for 2nd place sound

    3rd place> There is no 3rd place!
    ---------------------------------------------
    I also noticed you mentioned > "A receiver is an integral part of a home theater."

    WHY?
    For those who make the computer their central repository of all things Media to keep their setup "Minimal", I would think that a receiver would only have value for those who value DRM Lockdown and clutter
  • Reflex - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    1) I don't have to prove you wrong, you do that effectively on your own.
    2) The article also listed a receiver in the price range you suggest is budget as well. You seem unwilling to acknowledge that fact. Weirdly enough, you give more attention to the very brief mention of a gaming HTPC (on a primarily PC based site no less!) than the fact that they actively discussed the even cheaper option in the article itself and in the final table. Seriously, selection bias much?

    And yes, I never claimed there was no such thing as a receiver for less than $1k. However even at $1k, its a budget receiver. It is in no way out of scope for an article like this. $1k is below what is considered mid-range in this space for actual 'home theaters' rather than "TV and receiver in the living room" class setups.
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    Reflex says....
    (on a primarily PC based site no less!)
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Sorry Reflex but this is clearly not a PC based site!

    A "Personal" Computer would let "you" control every aspect of your own system

    This site is based around Locked Down DRM Spyware Platforms that prevent the end users from securing their own systems

    DRM destroys the National Security of All Countries by keeping those back doors open

    Try using the Internet without letting Microsoft continually make changes to "your" computer or monitoring everything you do while using Spyware Platform 10

    Whenever you must rely on strangers to provide YOUR security, you have no security

    The PC died with Sandy Bridge
  • Reflex - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    You are welcome to your opinion, but others are not required to subscribe to it.
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    "You are welcome to your opinion, but others are not required to subscribe to it."
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As are you
    When you say "Real Home Theater"
    How does that differ from "ANY" Home Theater

    Must we conform to 1000 different "Standards" to make it "Real" ?

    Must it have the latest DRM Lockdown ?

    What "EXACTLY" makes your Home Theater "Real" and mine "not so much" ?

    We would like to hear your expert opinion on the matter before we destroy it
  • Reflex - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    I usually refer to what people consider the definition on home theater focused websites and forums. Obviously you are free to define home theater however you like.

    Most people who build a home theater these days want at least Dolby 5.1/7.1 with many opting for the better positional audio of Dolby Atmos. Most people who build a home theater these days want 4k resolution with at least HDR10 with some opting for the slightly superior Dolby Vision standard.

    If your goals are to display content optimally, and playback audio optimally, equipment choices are dictated by those factors within the budget you have permitted yourself. All the rest is just noise. I don't give a damn if my content is DRM'd so long as the equipment I select can play it back reliably. I'm not even sure what 'DRM Lockdown" means in this context if everything I set up to play back the content can play it. I don't really care about hypotheticals or other scenarios that I am not interested in, nor are most people in this space given that as you point out those standards generally win out in the market.

    As for the value judgement, I've made zero comments about your home theater and its 'realness'. If you consider it real, more power to you. But again, I don't have to subscribe to your interpretations, recommendations or priorities when discussing or making recommendations on this area myself. As with most people, I go with what the prevailing standards are and it is reasonable to judge articles, content and conversations based on that understanding. If everyone builds their own definition of a term and insists others cater to only their definition we lose the ability to discuss any topic rationally.
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    "I usually refer to what people consider the definition on home theater focused websites and forums. Obviously you are free to define home theater however you like."
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    That's a valid point

    After defining and building the modern 3-Channel System upon which all these current standards are based (3.1 / 5.1 / 7.1 etc), it's nice to know I can have my own opinion on the matter

    The only standard now is that there is no standard!
  • ddrіver - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link

    Reflex, are you talking about the same "home theater focused websites and forums" that actually contradict whatever you keep saying here?

    In case you forgot, check the links to avsforum and avforums and let me know what they say about your opinions. =)
  • ddrіver - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link

    Reflex, you seem unwilling to accept that MENTIONING a product once and not presenting anything about it for the entire article makes that mention useless. If one single mention about an item is what you expect from an article detailing that particular item then it's no wonder your reasoning stinks like a single digit IQ.

    The receiver presented in the article is "The AVR: Denon X3400H". Period. Every single article on the internet agrees with my opinion that it's not budget. Ganesh was very unprofessional and left that title even after Denon "sponsored" him with a much more expensive model.

    Of course you don't have to prove anything. Not since you were "smart" enough to claim things that you went on to contradict yourself.
  • Galid - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link

    You guys are pushing this to the limits of tolerable. Can't you read the title and how the article begins? Is it written: ''The best most budget friendly home theater setup!!''? Does the article starts with: ''I started to build the best budget friendly home theater piece back in June 2017.''?

    No and no, it says ''A budget home theater'', not the ''most'' budget. This is a personnal setup exlplained on a tech website that doesn't specialise in audio review.

    I have a friend that owns the AVRX3400H recommended by audioholics and I can tell it's screaming good at it's price point. I consider myself a normal person and anything below 1k$ for a receiver TO ME is budget. My friend got this same receiver on sale for 750$, you can get it refurbished by Denon for 480$ and that is an AMAZING deal. Not saying there's no other good cheap AVR, there are tons of good options. Audio is much more compicated than PC component because it relies on personnal tastes(sound isn't perceived the same way for everyone).

    Now for Bullwinkle-J-Moose, your option of budget home theater is interesting but, what do you do for anyone who wants to upgrade speakers. That is REALLY common in the real world. You buy a better set of amplified speakers again, if you want definite improvements, you have to spend 2 to 3 times more at least unless you want a sidegrade. If you move into a new appartment or house with room size that doesn't fit anymore. Those JBL are really good for the price in a small room.

    That behringer 2496 is good but it's far from amazing. Reliability curses it's entrails with low end components. You can't just say: Much better than a Denon receiver I do believe. You did not even hear the Denon, wawwww this is.... A turbocharged Mazda 3 is much better than a Honda Accord HFP, I believe, never driven one but I BELIEVE! Best ARGUMENT eeeever, you sir won the internet.

    I sent my money to Santa Claus because I believe. Have a good year Folks!
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link

    "This is a personnal setup exlplained on a tech website that doesn't specialise in audio review.

    I have a friend that owns the AVRX3400H recommended by audioholics and I can tell it's screaming good at it's price point.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well Galid, Lucky for you, I do specialize in Audio Reviews

    As I said, I designed and built the first "Modern" 3-Channel Home Theater Speaker system from which all these "Current Standards" are based upon

    I was there creating "THE" Standard before Dolby / THX or anyone else came along as an also-ran

    I have met with many of top leaders in this field

    I could walk into a high end Audio demo and accurately describe the type and order of crossover they were using without any info other than my ears

    I have heard the very best of "Budget" speakers going for under $100,000

    I created the "Standard" for Modern Home Theater

    You won't win an argument by insulting the best by simply claiming that any copy-cat Corp (who would cheapen his creation for mass market appeal by giving it WOW-factor racing stripes and slick advertising) is "THE" Standard, when all they did was to copy the Real Standard to sell a lower quality version to the ignorant masses claiming to be Audioholics

    I think you meant Alcoholics
  • Galid - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link

    Waw, you're god, the really best and you have time to comment more than I do. I would love to have some of your links/websites or your own online store so I can get some useful references. I personally own a pair of Sennheiser HD-800 and Hifiman HE-560 running into a burson conductor SL1793 and I know how a recording should sound. My stereo setup consist of Rega Elex-R and ATC SCM 19 v2.

    Still that argument: ''Much better than a Denon receiver I do believe'' is worth a ton of gold coming from a pro/best/supergod of audio. Go into any audio forum and everyone will tell you the same if you ask them about a particular set of speakers/amplifier and that answer is? I'll let you guess, we'll see if you're that pro or if you're just so inclined about owning the ultimate ''truth''.

    What I can tell is that I liked that Denon AVR with Monitor audio bronze series, in fact I was blown away when he told me the price he paid but that is still personnal.

    You still have to provide any useful information other than ''I believe'' and I am the best because I did this and that and I work for NASA etc...

    I am co-owner of Totem Acoustics, I have shown my products around the world and met the very best the industry has to offer. My team and I have created some of the best speakers at their respective price points.

    I created Walt Disney when he was still in his mother womb.

    What have you created? Best budget ''no links provided'' godly audio setup?

    You won't win an argument with me when there's no argument to be won, audio is a question of personnal preference. I have met people that preferred a colored low end system than a 100k$ stereo perfectly balanced setup in a perfectly sound treated room. Your ears might like something someone else might find disgusting.
  • Galid - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link

    BTW there is no ''THE standard'', all I said in my post was that to my ears it was screaming good at it's price point wether audioholics were right or not to recommend it. My friend took it's info from their website and I listened to his setup and I liked it end of the line. Wether I was right or not to like it, it seems it's up to you, I can't like a particular setup if god doesn't allow me to do so.

    Oh well life is unfair, god has to decide wether I like to hera something if it's not passing through some piece of hardware recommended by him. Personnal preference has disappeared with Bullwinkle-J-Moose. He is the new DRM for audio purchases.
  • Galid - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link

    If you want to win something I can tell you that yes DRM is pure bullshit, it's the result of piracy. It's been dealing with it in a bad way, yes it can frustrate the consumer. If you want to know, yes I liked the Denon and I believe I have the right to like what I want to do even if there's better solutions out there. Can my friend live with it's DRM locked AVR yes he can, does he have the right to enjoy it yes he can, could he get better, yes he could.

    What do you think, owning a cellphone and using it is personnal, going on facebook and publishing photos/content is personnal owning a car? Wanna go down the rabbit hole? In 2013, 96% of every new car sold in the United States came with a black box that gathered information about each and every move you make. You think that going on the internet even with the best firewall being the best hacker on the planet and running windows XP, Linux or whatever is personnal? Everything can be dealt with if they really wanted to.
  • Reflex - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    "I have met people that preferred a colored low end system than a 100k$ stereo perfectly balanced setup in a perfectly sound treated room."

    This is a real issue, what sounds good is not necessarily perfect reproduction, and varies person to person. I am considering that issue on the visual side with my new LG B7A. It is absolutely jaw-droppingly phenomenal looking out of the box with all the LG features enabled. Unfortunately it is not accurate and I am considering having it calibrated. The problem with that is that unlike what people believe, calibration usually reduces the pop and extreme color saturation of TV's since the real world does not look that way.

    The question is: Do I want it accurate, or do I want it to blow my mind every time I turn it on? It's a harder question to answer than one would expect. There is nothing wrong with saying "I actually like oversaturated colors" just as there is nothing wrong with someone buying a sound system saying "actually, I like more bass."
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    "Go into any audio forum and everyone will tell you the same if you ask them about a particular set of speakers/amplifier and that answer is? I'll let you guess, we'll see if you're that pro or if you're just so inclined about owning the ultimate ''truth''."
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    An Audio Forum?
    OMG....
    I'd rather have the Ultimate Truth!
  • Galid - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    There is no thing as ultimate truth in the present world when personnal preference has to be taken into account. I have one proof right now, you seem to hate things so profoundly that someone else seem to like. Do you know the definition of ultimate truth? Something that cannot change, science is an example of ultimate truth not based on what you see or hear but rather on something that can be tested with identical results whoever is testing it with the same tools.

    That answer you couldn't provide taken from normal users(not gods like you are) on audio forums is that they will tell you: You need to listen and try it to know if it will suit you It is the opposite of what you are trying to tell us that in the audio world there is ultimate truth. Waw, in the end, you are rather a pathetic god, one that believes he owns something that doesn't exist, truth in itself. Truth is not an object, it's not what you think it can't be possessed, it's something that can't be changed by time, personnal tastes or anything that revolves around what I just said.

    I'm not denying you have some knowledge but you are pushing the boundaries far too much to be criticizing other's taste. You are exhibiting some very low tolerance levels caused by that knowledge on a subject that needs to take personnal preference into account. If X amplifier you freaking hate because of DRM, overprice but you look on the internet and said amplifier has 90% positive review. That 90% of users totally have the RIGHT to love it even if they don't know there's better out thewre for a cheaper price. If I buy a porsche spyder 918 for 1.7 millions that does 1 to 60mph in 2.3 seconds and freaking love it, I dn'T need people to force feed me about the toyota AE86 modified for 300k$ that does it in 1.8 seconds.

    Have a good year
  • Galid - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    I would really much like to listen to your setup, sincerely. I know I would be in awe, never said what you put up on the internet is pure crap, all I wanted to hear from you is that there's stuff out there even if it's overpriced, includes DRM, seems like pure mockery that can still be liked by someone even if it seems impossible to you.

    But you are such a supreme being with no space around it for tolerance of imperfections in the current world
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    "Sennheiser HD-800 and Hifiman HE-560 running into a burson conductor SL1793 and I know how a recording should sound. My stereo setup consist of Rega Elex-R and ATC SCM 19 v2."
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You poor guy
    You've never actually heard a great set of speakers
    Even your headphones begin combing over 10Khz with a sine sweep

    My Speakers have zero combing or image shifting at any usable frequency

    Image is stable at ALL usable frequencies! and the sweet spot covers the entire room unlike your ATC SCM 19 v2

    Phase coherent hybrid crossovers and full omni-directional imaging would probably scare the crap out of your after being stuck with your Low End setup for so long

    You have my sympathy
  • Galid - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    Well happy to you if you got the most neutral stereo system in the world, never said mine was perfect but it's still good enough to know how a record should sound even if it still has coloration. I was already informed about the bump in frequency on my headphones, the frequency graphs came with the headphones.

    Who do you freaking think you are, I just said I've seen people liking lower end system than higher end ones. What you want in the end, it is not nature with it's imperfection, you want the perfection humans have created, you wanna hear mathematics perfectly aligned, let's kill all those unbalanced beings and create a planet where everything is robotized, controlled, calculated.

    I like imperfections and you seem to believe no one should, I never said you can'T like what you do. I'm trying to have you understand someone else might very much like what you find disgusting. You have yet to understand that.
  • Galid - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    ''You've never actually heard a great set of speakers''

    How condescending you can be, I went to many audio shows including Montreal audio fest, again I guess every set of speakers there was really bad, everything is to you yet you recommend stuff like JBL powered speakers which by the way must sound uber crappy. I'm not trying to win a contest here, you already won the internet sir. You own the very best the planet has to offer and yet you can'T accept people can like stuff even if there's better out there.
  • Galid - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    My crap low end system, let's then not consider 99.9% of speakers ever produced amplifiers and so on because they're all crappy colored and unworthy.

    Those JBL speakers you recommended are crap btw you just said it. No one can like them. That behringer 2496 can't be loved either, it's crap by your standards because you own better, everything below what you own is crap and then should not even be discussed on the internet.

    I never tried to show you I own better than you, I just wanted you to aknowledge someone might like what you dislike, audio is not science, it goes through someone's ear and then is interpreted by their ears. A neutral sound set of speakers will make some recordings unlistenable. If those records are 90% of what they listen to, they will hate your super neutral sound system.
  • Galid - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    Forgive them for they know not what they do.

    I'm sorry, I forgive you, let's hope you will be able to do so with me.
  • we - Monday, January 1, 2018 - link

    "My Speakers have zero combing or image shifting at any usable frequency"

    You are talking about the JBL LSR305? Even if that were true (which I doubt), there are many many other significant aspects of loudspeaker design. Some simply cannot be properly addressed at the price point of the LSR305. For example, it can be assumed that the drivers of the ATC SCM 19 v2 will have significantly better distortion / linearity specifications that the cheap drivers in the JBLs. And although powered speaker can be very good, I wonder to what extent JBL addressed vibrational effects on the internal amps and crosover considering the available budget (All amps and even crossovers are microphonic to an extent). So much more could be said.
    I have heard neither the JBLs nor the ATCs, but logic dictates that if the JBLs are even remotely comparable to the ATC in sound quality, then JBL truly pulled off a miracle!
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Tuesday, January 2, 2018 - link

    "You are talking about the JBL LSR305? Even if that were true (which I doubt), there are many many other significant aspects of loudspeaker design. Some simply cannot be properly addressed at the price point of the LSR305."
    ----------------------------------------------
    Oh HELL NO!
    I am definitely NOT talking about the "BUDGET" JBL LSR305 Home Theater setup

    I was referring to the 3-channel "Reference Standard" speakers I created over 30 years ago

    Additive/Subtractive frequency interference is easy enough to eliminate with a 3-channel system when done right, but cannot be eliminated in a 2 channel stereo system regardless of cost

    You will get ALWAYS get combing whenever you send the same signal to 2 or more speakers simultaneously

    Even the most expensive dynamic headphones exhibit image shifting at higher frequencies

    It is much less noticeable with planar magnetics, but still there

    You can easily test this combing effect by runnin a mono sine sweep into your headphones at a low level to protect your hearing

    The sweep (Starting at the bass end) will remain dead center of your headphones until it reaches a certain frequency which could be 6-8 Khz on pure crap headphones / 8-12Khz on most midrange headphones and above 12Khz on the best available headphones

    Ideally, you do not want the stereo image to shift left or right as frequency changes as the stereo image wanders and muddies up the acoustical image you are trying to create
  • rapster - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    Hahahaha! Someone skipped a dose?
  • FreckledTrout - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    @ddriver, this is very low end for me, so I have no issue with it being called budget. The Jamo sub is utter crap probably not even worth $100 if sold alone. If this build had say a SVS PB-1000 as the sub I might be onboard on the sound side. The in ceiling speakers are at least middle of the road. The other tips were nice but as far as the speakers go it couldn't be any more low end. I ahve the Denon AVR x3300 the prior year version of the one here and it is a lovely receiver mostly because of the Audyssey xt32.
  • Golgatha777 - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    It doesn't even make financial sense to try and do 4k Blu-ray on PC. The optical drive is $117 and the playback software, PowerDVD 17 is $40 currently. Add to this the requirement for specific motherboards and CPUs for the DRM chain, and you've more than paid for an XBox One S.

    Not to mention from my anecdotal experiences during the Bluray days, the software will be buggy as hell, the audio will be a pain in the ass to configure correctly, and you'll need to update the software (in this case PowerDVD) to the newest version down the road to keep up with the DRM key refreshes.

    I built a HTPC years ago, and it's only still useful because I also use it to game on, and because of software that strips DRM off my discs. Now that commercial playback software must support Cinavia, it's useless to me as well for playing back ripped ISO images and media files; so I turn to open source programs and will keep my old hardware that ignores Cinavia, etc. for playback. For streaming and 4k discs, and XBox One S is much more cost effective, and the playback software will get updated for free going forward (support for new DRM keys, Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos, etc.).
  • Golgatha777 - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Forgot the $26 for a SATA breakout drive enclosure for the 5.25in optical drive.
  • edzieba - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    For regular BD playback, by far the most painless experience is to just use AnyDVDHD and play the movie file directly off of the disc. No mucking about with menus (and waiting for a Java VM to load up just to RUN the menus!), no dealing with the steaming pile of garbage that is PowerDVD, no worrying about having to have an obtuse HDCP compatible chain, etc.

    Recent developments have shown HDCP 2 is on the way to being broken in a similar way, so soon the only practical requirements may be a BDXL capable drive and a HDR capable monitor/TV.
  • Fujikoma - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    I rip everything to an NAS and strip the Cinavia out of it. It also saves me the hassle of getting off my lazy butt and I can just stream anywhere in my house without a problem. My 4k BD drives cost me less than $70 (LG) and they both work fine for ripping (1950X TR with NVidia 1080). I can use my XBoneS for the odd video files (format, audio and sub options) I have and the Roku (boxes and the t.v. built-ins) work just fine for my h265 MP4s. I think you're right that the XBone platform would be a better option for 4k at this point. I'd use a 4k dedicated player for family, if no one games because it's less complicated. With family, fewer remotes and components has been the way to go. That's why I keep the amps and pre-amp setup in my computer room.
    The article, itself, doesn't really make any sense because there's too much skimping on the home theatre. Just easier to start with a good t.v. and audio setup with front speakers only, then add in the extra bells and whistles later. The list doesn't even contain a sub... which means a decent sound bar would be viable option to ceiling speakers as the surround setup isn't even in the cost breakdown.
  • rapster - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    How do you strip out Cinavia? Last I heard there still wasn’t a viable solution and would be very glad to hear that the situation has changed.
  • Fujikoma - Sunday, January 7, 2018 - link

    I'm not going to list the software, as it already had a run-in with the U.S. govt. and I don't feel like causing myself more hassle again even though I have a legal right to rip my own BD/DVD collection. Considering I (as does everyone in the U.S.) pay a 'fine' to the recording industry every time I purchase recordable/storage media for potential pirating/format change of stuff I own, my attitude towards it is even more jaded. Needless to say, the software was worth the money.
  • Aikouka - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    I wouldn't just flat-out recommend the Xbox One to anyone as a UHD BR player. The Xbox One's biggest problem is that it's far too noisy when playing UHD Blu-rays (disc noise), and it's quite easy to hear during quieter parts of a movie. I went that route to start with, and it only took me one movie to start researching alternatives. Unfortunately, most alternatives have issues too. Sony's player is arguably the one that has the least amount of awkward teething issues, but it'll never support Dolby Vision. (TCL's P605/P607 supports Dolby Vision.) LG was supposed to add it, but they pulled the update. I've also heard complaints of noise from other players. The only player that seems to get decent praise is Oppo's 203, but it's also over twice as expensive as the others (~$500).
  • edlee - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    I understand the superiority of Dolby Vision, but the fact that its not widely supported in the tv market, only LG, roku tv, and vizio support the feature. All the support is going to the forthcoming HDR10+, i know its difficult to review right now, but its an open standard and royalty free. You will see support for it from more tv manufacturers as well. It has streaming support from Amazon on over 100 titles, and support is mostly coming from Netflix in the future.
  • Reflex - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    And honestly until you get to 80" or higher projector style setups DV is unlikely to make a noticeable difference in image quality. DV is a nice to have, but not at all mandatory for a first class experience, at least not yet.
  • HStewart - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    I actually have Xbox One S and primary used it for UHD Blu-rays. There is difference in having it on PC then on Xbox - because you can also used it as 4K Monitor which is good fro graphics programs.

    I would agree for low cost it best to go for Xbox One S ( or X ).

    I would think with this Pioneer drive - you should be able to get HULU in 4k on PC - but even with the Xbox you will need 13 megabit Internet connection to run 4k HULU.
  • Doomtomb - Monday, January 22, 2018 - link

    I guess I'll throw my two cents in because everybody is jumping in with their own opinions on Home Theater. (there is no right answer to satisfy everybody).
    I'm 28, just moved into my first house, trying to do HT right, on MY budget. My TV crapped out on me so I put my money into an OLED during Black Friday. No regrets, Zero. The picture quality is hands down better than my 2015 Samsung LED-LCD. It is significantly noticeable, by everybody that views it. Second, I spent some money on 5.1 speakers and subs about 7 years ago. Can you really count that cost? Maybe ~$1000 including the receiver. Speakers are by Polk Audio, could be better, but just fine for entry level. AV Receiver is not super fancy but is reputable brand, Marantz, from 2012. Got it on craigslist with some speakers at a super deal. Thing sounds beautiful, has all the Dolby codecs minus Atmos. I find myself only wanting audio out from my TV. If you need 4K picture, plug the device into the TV and output the audio with optical. Sound quality doesn't change much over the years, only features. Keep the smart features on your TV or set-top box. Keep the audio on your receiver, heck you could go with just an Amplifier but you probably want surround sound so you need processing = receiver. Do not overspend on that device, they become outdated VERY quickly.
  • bella44 - Monday, June 4, 2018 - link

    Xbox is a nice option. Now we can also install apps like terrarium tv on Xbox to watch movies and Tv shows for free. Get terrarium tv from https://terrariumtv.io
  • 29a - Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - link

    Rather than getting an XBox they should download a pirated copy. That's the only way the studios will take notice.
  • RiZad - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    " Further research revealed that the Tegra K1 SoC in the SATV does not support VP9 Profile 2" The Shield TV never came with the K1, the 2015 and 2017 version both have the X1
  • RiZad - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/9289/the-nvidia-shi...
  • ganeshts - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Thanks. I fixed that typo.
  • trane - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Vega supports HDCP 2.2. So is it just the driver we are waiting for? Nvidia released a driver for it much later, too.
  • ganeshts - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Still looking for a compact machine with Vega GPUs....
  • Chaser - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Linux based Myth TV PVR server back end. (Works great with any decent CPU/RAM) HDHome Run cable converter box. (Free) Comcast Cable card. Amazon Fire TV w/Kodi plug in to manage my channels, lineups, recordings. Pure bliss and I save a lot of money.
  • ddrіver - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    That would just be too budget... Plus, nobody sponsors articles with "ghetto" solutions.
  • ganeshts - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    I would love to get a rundown of the budget for that PR server backend. Still too limited IMO and not enough flexibility.
  • Aspernari - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    "On a budget", then recommends and links a receiver over twice the cost of the TV!

    Come on. Seriously.
  • Aspernari - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Replying to myself to further comment: His actual recommendation, the Denon AVRS730H is merely JUST AS EXPENSIVE as the TV.

    And then there's no actual speakers, or mention of speakers on the entire AVR page... So why are we getting a receiver?

    At the price of the receiver alone, you can start getting into entry level Atmos-enabled soundbars.
  • ganeshts - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    How is $349 / $429 as expensive as a $700 TV? Maybe you are seeing some other numbers?
  • ddrіver - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Ganesh, are you actively trying to not understand the point multiple people are making? DO NOT PUT "BUDGET"-ANYTHING IN THE TITLE. Especially if you're going to use a $2000 HTPC with a GTX1080, or a $1000 receiver (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072Z9ZGSZ ). Did I already say it? This is not budget!

    Do you get your Christmas bonus for clicks? I clicked because I'm looking for a receiver recommendation on a budget and expected some good but cheap options. And I find you're actually using a $1000 model and just mentioning another almost $500 model (https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVRS730H-Receiver-wir... ) once without detailing much on alternatives or what similar models I could go for. You went on to talk about the $1000 model for the rest of the receiver section.
  • Aspernari - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Whoops, I was thinking about the S405. Sorry, the receiver is only nearly as expensive as the TV when the TV is on a good sale. Now, let's get back to the absurdity of this article.

    This article lacks direction and focus. It misses the mark for both its stated purpose, and as any sort of reasonable guide or reference.

    - Assume the reader is recycling speakers, but not any other components - Going all the way down to HDMI cables.
    - Clearly a sponsored deal with Denon. It's disclosed but still awful since no other receiver is mentioned, alternatives like soundbars (again, low end Atmos is available for less than the recommended receiver) are never mentioned, and anyone looking for help unpacking the current audio tech is left on their own.
    - $2000 HTPC, even as a joke option, is more than the entire rest of the recommended kit combined.
    - Recommending all sorts of hardware that doesn't support features that should have been seen as requirements (Tegra and the $2000 HTPC failing to provide full HDR support, etc).
    - Recommending a $200 Android device in an article about budget setups featuring a Roku TV.
    - $200 more in Bluray playback equipment to the HTPCs, but no consideration for UHD bluray players or the Xbox One S - The recommendation is to deal with the minefield of compatibility issues rather than spend the same sum on a standalone solution that doesn't suffer from those problems - and plays games!
    - I'm going to harp on the Denon sponsorship and the clear bias there again. There are two products named in the article subsections. The TV, and the receiver. And it's not even the recommended receiver! No other single product gets an entire page to itself. The section about the receiver is even longer than the TV. There's no info provided about the S730H, not even basic specs. Congrats on your free $1000 receiver, but it doesn't belong in a budget article.

    I get that you wrote this as a "this is what I did" article, not a comprehensive guide, but come on. No alternatives suggested for the Denon is... Really galling.
  • we - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Apparently Ultra HD Blue-ray video and sound quality from the Xbox One S is somewhat disappointing.
    https://www.whathifi.com/news/no-xbox-one-s-isnt-v...
  • Aspernari - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    There've been some patches since that article was published which, as I understand it, addressed most of the quality issues.

    I have an X, and have no complaints - but I also don't have another UHD disk player to compare against.
  • Aikouka - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    I've mentioned this before, but the Xbox One's greatest flaw is that it's too noisy. Disc noise pushed me away from using the player after playing only a single movie (Sicario). I also ran into problems with the disc freezing in random spots, but not always in the same spot. (Do note that other players had no problems with the disc at all.) If you want a basic UHD player, I'd probably go with the Sony X800. I've had the best luck with mine so far with only a few hiccups in the beginning. I did replace it simply because I wanted a unit with Dolby Vision, which the only decent (but not cheap) option there was the Oppo 203.
  • Galid - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    There must be a lot of kids in here, this is not SUPER budget but it sure is budget in my mind. My home theater setup without the PC is worth 6k$ and it is considered cheap by many standards. The best budget and worthy contender for around 600$ would be the Onkyo NR727. I myself would not consider anything below but that's only 200$ cheaper. ONE of my speakers costs freaking 400$ and I'm really considered on the OK/cheap side. Do you guys ever go out in stores, you know, not those internet websites where you click and wait, ACTUAL audio video stores? WAW you guys need to see the light outside, it's made by the SUN! WAW!!! Any respectable audio video store will have AVR + speakers setups from 1k to 50k$++, so I would consider 1 to 5k pretty cheap.

    Wanna go ultra budget, buy used and freaking leave this website alone. What do you want, website full of used audio video pieces of equipment just leave this place. Sure this article could be better but it sure look budget friendly to me and I'm FAR from being a rich guy.

    When I see people complaining about a 800$ receiver, I cannot help but wonder who's reading these articles. You work for mcdonalds 24h a week? Don't look at buying a home theater, get a BETTER JOB then come back ffs.
  • rapster - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    Definitely. My media cabinet alone was $3k and is the budget option compared to the built-in at my last house. I really don’t get the budget complaints unless we’re dealing with kids, and thought the piece addressed quite a few things that caused me grief. Wish I read it before my last build.
  • ganeshts - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Most speakers were re-used from my previous setup, and as such, not a part of the initial purchase list. I assume most users who upgrade can reuse existing speakers. I provided a suggestion in the concluding section.
  • NeatOman - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    I'm still content with my current setup of a plasma connected via HDMI 4:4:4 and true 8-bit to a Pentium G6950/H57/4GB w/60GB SSD that's as quiet as a cat fart. The sound IMO hasn't improved much at all unless you are going full ATMOS, my 10+ year old setup is "limited" by 5.1 96k/24-bit audio :-/ (limited by the human ear as well lol) and the speakers (that cost under a few hundred dollars) haven't really gotten any better in the last 10+ years despite what people claim (marginal at best).

    Plasma still has better colors than the newest quantum/nando/hyper whatever LCD/LED TV's, although due to light/color bleed either from the panel itself or just having the lights on it's blacks aren't as good on my 6+ year old Plasma. And since i only use it for movies there still isn't any noticable burn in.

    But I'm definitely going to replace the PC with something Intel powered that can handle HDR10 and 4K streaming (DRM) that i believe is anything iX-7xxx and up when i get a proper OLED TV.
  • beisat - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Netflix on PC is never 24p - neither on Edge nor UWP App...just keep that in mind if you ever consider using a htpc on a tv...
  • Orange14 - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    I agree with others as to some of these setups not qualifying as budget HTPCs. In addition, the major fault is to assume that nobody runs cablecard tuners anymore. In my case, I still watch a fair amount of sports that requires such a set up. I've been building my own HTPCs for over five years now in a variety of different configurations. Unless one really needs the setup for gaming, the hardware requirements are modest.
  • euskalzabe - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    I'm so surprised to not even see a mention of Windows 10's horrendous HDR support. I use a HDR10 supporting TV as a monitor, with a GTX 1060, and the second I enable HDR on the desktop everything looks awfully washed out. Many have commented on this problem online forums. Sadly HDR on Windows 10 is, currently, unusable.
  • Aikouka - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    If you enable HDR in the resolution options in Windows, it will leave HDR on *at all times*. The problem is that it makes *no attempts* to adjust the content. So, it will effectively display SDR content in HDR, which doesn't turn out well. Although, I didn't notice nearly as many issues on my Sony TV as I did on my TCL TV (the Best Buy variant of the one in the this article, the P605). I wonder if that's due to the Sony TV's features including adjusting SDR content to try to make it look more like HDR?
  • reiggin - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Not to pile on for the sake of piling on, but as others have said, this article just doesn't meet the stated objective of the headline. It's not a budget setup. It actually fails on two points -- it's neither "budget" nor "setup." To imply that it is a setup would imply that it's fully baked out. It's missing several crucial pieces of info on the speakers/audio quality (only noting the receiver and a set of surrounds is missing so much detail). And it's also missing basic details on how the whole system is configured, intended use, impressions other than technical ones, etc.

    All in all, this article really disappoints. It's subpar on the quality I've come to expect from Anandtech. There are glaring typos throughout that should be caught with a basic spell check. The structure of the article itself seems to bounce around. Heck, even the introductory first page just seems to be a hot mess.

    I think in the end the best (admittedly unsolicited) advice that I could give is to just leave the home theater reviews to AVSForums or some other more experienced site and instead stick to reviews of individual hardware components.
  • Chyll2 - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Subpar article. I rather see this in a personal blog not in this site. One of the worst "budget" article I saw in a while
  • mr_tawan - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    On the HTPC front, I guess you went for Core i5 HTPC just for SGX that's required by PowerDVD. It looks like all 7th gen Core CPU supports SGX (unlike Skylake which the lower bound is Core i5), so maybe Core i3 NUC works as well in this regard?
  • soper8 - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    I would also agree that some AV forums have a more robust inventory of options but if sites like Anandtech others don't bring more into the fold of HTPC the community had less opportunity to grow.

    On the term "budget" used in the article: I think there some perspective on what could be spent on a HTPC setup vs the relative low cost of this setup.

    My setup...

    Server:
    HP DL380 Gen 7 8 core 128gb ram
    40TB+ RAID6 storage (72 TB raw)
    Runs Windows 2012 R2 with Emby, Plex, Kodi backends
    Provides iSCSI drive support for client recording

    "TV" clients
    1 Intel NUC 5ppyh
    1 Zotac CI325
    1 home built i5 4560T mini itx
    1 home built i7 2600k atx
    all have 8gb ram, 250ish SSD, Windows 7 or 8.1
    last two have blue ray and amd discrete video
    (I haven't jumped to 4k so I will have to swap out video cards on those two.)

    Streamers
    Microsoft wireless video adapters on all screens (supports windows, mac, and android)

    TV tuners
    Centon infinity 6 for cable card
    HDHomerun Prime OTA

    My point to basic/budget is all in the eye of the beholder and I haven't even listed tvs, amplifiers, tuners, etc.
  • we - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Retailers in the UK advertize the RRP of the Denon AVR-X2400H as £499, and it is easily obtainable at various retailers for £399, which is budget territory. How is it possible that the same product has a RRP of $999 in the US (according to the article)??
  • we - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    My mistake (ist a X3400H, not X2400H). Apologies.
  • thestryker - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    I do think that this article does fulfill the goal of explaining the current state of htpc and giving options. I'd like to think people are capable of reading the conclusion setting forth several option, but given a lot of the comments that doesn't seem to be the case.

    No matter how average the playback may be not mentioning the xbox one s/x as playback options is a missed opportunity as they're both cheaper than htpc for uhd blu-ray.

    For many years I've had a pc connected to my tv for playback, but now I've switched to using the plex tv app on the tv and xbox one s for blu-ray playback. The draconian approach to drm drove me away from the htpc and I don't see that changing. Most good 4k tvs have netflix/amazon built in and many have hulu support. There's really not much to be gained by using a htpc anymore unless you have very specific needs.
  • darckhart - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    I think this article was fine; it provides a starting point. HTPC crowd is far too opinionated to ever have consensus on "budget" and certain requirements (whether video or audio) preclude "budget." To do a comprehensive selection and review would be ridiculous. This article was, if you have a TV that supports X, and you want audio that supports Y, and you want to have a PC in there, here's a rough setup and the limits of it.

    That being said, this article convinced me that the htpc space for video is definitely not "it just works" and it seems like they're making it difficult because no one cares to play well with each other. This leaves the consumer having to juggle every piece of equipment and make sure they're updated for this or that.
  • Golgatha777 - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Even dedicated AV equipment is getting really bad as of late. Does it support Dolby Atmos and Vision, is it HDCP 2.2 compliant, what about when HDMI 2.1 comes around, does it support all HDR standards, will it have a firmware update for any of the aforementioned and at what date, etc.?
  • Kevin G - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    The HTCP market is in a bit of shock as 'standards' have been rather fluid of late, something you never want a true standard to be.

    HDMI and HDCP are the two big factors as to why things have been so dynamic. The transition from HDMI 1.4 to HDMI 2.0 went rather well from a high level stand point and everything nowadays has going to pure HDMI 2.0 (there are still a few pieces of electronics that mix HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4 ports). The complicating factor is that HDCP versions haven't been tied down to HDMI versions. So a HDMI 1.4 port could support HDCP 1.4 or HDCP 2.0. Similarly HDMI 2.0 can have either HDCP 2.0 or HDCP 2.2 support. Right now the coming HDMI 2.1 equipment is based around HDCP 2.2 but I fathom there will soon be a new version of HDCP announced for 8K content making the first wave of HDMI 2.1 gear useless outside of a glorified PC displays.

    On the PC side of things, that requires OS updates to support the new versions of copy protections and hardware to enable it too. There appears to be active disdain by media companies to actually permit 4K disc playback on PC's, hence why it has such a long chain of requirements.
  • Reflex - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Ganesh -

    There is literally no way you could have wrote this that would have satisfied even half the home theater crowd. That entire space is full of opinions. I didn't really agree with your decisions either, but I don't have to because you aren't really telling anyone what to buy, you are documenting what you built and providing it for others who may wish to have a good starting point. And that is all you needed to do.

    My own setup was recently rebuilt. I finally ditched the receiver concept and went with a soundbar.

    LG OLED65B7A: $2049 via Amazon as a certified refurb (Beach Camera is reboxing non-refurbs to avoid the MSRP)
    Samsung HW-K950 Sound Bar (open box special from an Amazon reseller, $760)
    Awake Lion 5 port HDMI2/HDCP2.2 switch ($50)

    Connected to that I have a FireTV, Xbox One S, a SteamLink (wish they'd do a 4k version) and a few older devices as well. It all works, including HDR and Dolby Atmos from devices that support it. By watching for open box or refurb marked items I saved around a grand from the price and this should last me for a long time. I do not miss the receiver, the sound bar I chose is the top rated in the space and has actual back channels and separate sub, it is fantastic with Atmos content. Plus my wiring is much simpler.

    TV: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074QQZ9VJ
    Soundbar: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I0HW12O
    HDMI Switch: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WV5YJ6H
    Legacy device Switch: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072F6XJHL
    Network Switch: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AX8XHRQ

    Total devices connected -

    Xbox One S
    Xbox 360
    Xbox
    Amazon FireTV2
    SteamLink (connected to a gaming PC somewhere where I don't have to hear it)
    Dreamcast
  • Golgatha777 - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    For my own setup:

    $200 - XBox One S - Use it for all optical media and streaming. Supports HDR10, bitstream output of Dolby Atmos, and HDMI 2.0 for 4k@60Hz. It handles all my optical disc and Internet streaming needs.

    $1000 (video card is $500 of it) - HTPC - has a GTX 1080, i7 3770k from an old build, and 16GB DDR3 memory. Plays back media files and ISO rips from a home server very nicely with 7.1 surround sound support built into the OS. I call this good enough for the convenience factor because setting up Dolby Atmos has proven to be a nightmare on Windows 10 so far.

    $1200 - My receiver is a Yamaha RXA-3060 9.2 channel hooked up in a 7.1.2 configuration with HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0a on all ports. It also supports HDR10 and BT.2020 out of the box. For the money, I figure this is about as future proofed as I can get on a receiver. I can also turn the last dot 2 (7.1.(2)) into a 7.1 and stereo set of speakers for a 2nd zone on the back, outdoor patio.

    $1400 - LG 55EG9100 1080p TV - I'll worry about 4k discs once the powers that be sort out the standards for HDR, or all TVs start supporting both HDR10 and Dolby Vision (and the XBox One S gets Dolby Vision support); until then, so sale. For now, I'll buy a handful of 4k Bluray discs since I know I'll upgrade at some point, and I can enjoy the Dolby Atmos soundtracks now.
  • fallaha56 - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Sorry but very poor advice here(!)

    A good AV receiver lasts more than 4(!) years and here you are recommending someone buy one just as it becomes obsolete

    HDMI 2.1 is future-proof for years, 2.0 is about to flop with HDR

    Did you also say that Denon were sponsoring this article?!?
  • Kevin G - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    In the market, it seems that 4K using HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 and HDR has finally settled things down after several years of turbulence. By my count we're at the five generation of consumer 4K/UHD. First we had the wave of 4K support only via HDMI 1.4/HDCP 1.4, then a half step with some HDMI 1.4/HDCP 2.0 displays which didn't see wide spread release as a new generation with HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.0 was around the corner which could finally do 4k60. Then HDCP 2.2 came out making all the previous HDCP 2.0 displays incredibly short lived. Now we're seeing the advent of HDR being a standardized feature to go alongside 4k. All of this is over the course of 5 years. Finally have things settle down for 4K that getting content on the display as designed is not a headache as it has been in years past. Oh and 4K content is finally arriving with streaming services and 4K disc media.

    The problem with HDMI 2.1 is that there will likely be three generations of hardware that support. First wave, which will likely be shown off at CES 2018, will focus around higher frame rate transfer or higher resolution. As these devices start shipping in late 2018, there will likely be a new HDCP version to protect 8K content announced to make all the new displays only worthwhile as monitors for the first save of HDMI 2.1 video cards. Hooray for copy protection screwing over the consumer! Then I see another generation of displays accepting variable refresh rate as soon as Sony or MS update their console to support variable refresh rate. Ultimately a good thing gaming but it'll spur another round of obsolete hardware. Best time to adopt would be wait until 8K media has settled own on a distribution medium as once content becomes readily available, there is less incentive to change underlaying spec. That'll still be years away.
  • fallaha56 - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Also...Gemini Lake cannot do HDR because of ‘power contraints’ but an iPhone or Samsung can?

    Really? Or is this just intel at it again
  • lowphas - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    A <75 usd android TV box can do 4k60fps hdr decode on paper. Usually they have a 5v2a power supply. But I dunno, never had one before.

    Tv sets are just a display panel and a small (maybe mobile?) soc in my eyes. There is virtually no power or thermal limitation inside a tv. (I have an mu7000 series tv)

    So back to the intel cpu... I am just missing some point or it is not that demanding feature so in my opinion it can be maybe a price(ing)* constrain.
  • Mikzip - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Is it possible to get HDR out by means of USB C to HDMI adaptor, my HDMI port is only 1.4
  • Kevin G - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    Depends on the system but most USB-C ports that can provide video do so natively by DisplayPort and then convert that over to HDMI. So HDR output is possible because DP supports it but the DP to HDMI conversion chip plays a roll here too.

    So the short answer is yes but it may not be possible with all adapters.
  • Mikzip - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    Do you know of any such adapter, the only one i have been able to lokate with HDR are only for the MacBook, and my USB C port don't have Thunderbolt
  • Kevin G - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    Not off hand that'd be guaranteed to work. Even if an adapter doesn't immediately work, you could try editing the system's EDID table to expose 10 bit color etc. and see what gets passed through. I strongly recommend this testing with a display that accepts HDR via both DP and HDMI so you could compare the results with and with the adapter as a factor.
  • Mikzip - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    I was trying to hook it up to my HDR TV LGB6, all HDMI inputs accept HDR. Editing EDID table are a little out of my league I'm afraid ;-)
  • harshw - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    The BIOS ver for the ASRock Beebox 7200-S is shown as 1.73. The version available for download from the website is 1.60. Was the 1.73 ver also a beta?

    And any idea of what the LSPCon version was? 1.66?

    It's sad that the Intel HD graphics cannot do YCbCr 4:2:2 ...
  • Nestoritwiz - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    Budget??
    Don't get me wrong I applaud your choices any of that stuff which I would love to own and it's a combination is a whole oh my God I'd be so happy.
    But if the goal was to be on a budget or last three to five years without being update outdated then why would you use a DVD player of any kind three to five years come on we all know streaming is future DVDs are like VHS. Nvidia shield on sale for 149, T5 Samsung hard drive or some equivalent hundred bucks or less, ajisen air mouse remote 25 bucks. Get your home theater system 2 to 300. And you're good to go. Thank you for allowing me to express my thoughts I just think you missed the mark a little bit.
    Happy holidays
    Stephen
  • Lord of the Bored - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    He didn't use a DVD player. He used a BluRay player. Completely different.
    And until streaming gets better bitrates it is an incomplete replacement from a purely technical standpoint. I mean, when regular BR supplies 50 megabits per second, UHD BR is a hundred mbps, and UHD Netflix is 25 mbps, there is OBVIOUSLY a quality sacrifice that has to be made(though the UHD situation is better than HD, where Netflix is a ridiculously compact FIVE mbps. I'll take a quarter the data over a tenth any day).

    I mean, if you don't care about image and sound quality, you may as well watch VHS tapes off that old CRT you found in gramma's garage. I always thought home theater builds were about getting the best experience, not a really expensive mediocre experience.
  • CharonPDX - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    "without worrying about it getting obsolete within the the next 3 to 5 years."

    JFC... A home theater system should last far longer than 3-5 years...
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    "JFC... A home theater system should last far longer than 3-5 years..."
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Not with DRM!
    A mans gotta know his limitations (Clint Eastwood)
  • pixelstuff - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    I wish the manufacturers would create a decent set of components (AVR, Blu-ray, etc) that are not more than 8" deep so you can sit them below a wall mounted TV and they don't protrude way out into the room compared to the TV.

    Wiring would have to be on the sides with a standardized way to hide them, but I don't think extra width would be a big issue when placed under a large TV.
  • Dionysos1234 - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    Recommending a Denon 999$ reciever is not only NON budget - It is also an extremely poor choice for reciever in that price range from an audio perspective. Guess HTPC is not an area where Anandtech have qualified people e.g. the amount of time devoted to showing poorly made graps on power consumption seems bizarre.
  • Aikouka - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    As for all the remarks about the receiver, my biggest piece of advice is to always buy last year's model UNLESS you absolutely need a feature only on the newest model. For example, I bought an X4300 for less than the article's X3400, and there really aren't any differences that would make me consider swapping.
  • Aikouka - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    As a quick note for the uninitiated, Denon's model numbers work where the thousands place is the model number and the hundreds place is the year. So, the 4300 that I mention above is the 4th-tier model (higher is better) from the third year. The 3400 is the third-tier model from the fourth year. So, mine is a higher model, but it's a year older. To see whether it's worth an upgrade, the AVS Forum's Denon Owner's Threads usually have comparisons to previous years (e.g. X#400 vs. X#300) that can help you decide whether the latest is worth it.
  • r3loaded - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    All I'm getting from this article is that HDR is a mess of confusing and incompatible standards and support, compounded by Hollywood's almost autistic fixation with ramming DRM down the throats of anyone wanting to watch 4K HDR content, and the very specific hardware requirements that it imposes on consumers.

    Also, why is it that there are tons of HDR TVs on the market but barely any HDR monitors? And conversely, why does no one make a 4K HDR TV smaller than 40 inches (say, 32 inches)? Not all of us are blessed with big houses that can fit the 55 inch TV mentioned in the review.
  • benedict - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    Yep, sounds like too much trouble for what you're getting and you always risk some weird standard won't work on your expensive setup. Until they make this as simple as torrenting a movie the home theater market will remain a very tiny niche.
  • CityBlue - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    The BDA is expected to announce that the free to licence HDR10+ open standard is being added to the UHD BluRay standard in January at CES, and not the proprietary Dolby Vision. After that announcement I imagine DV will become a niche format. HDR10+ is simply what HDR10 should always have been.

    HDR10+ (compared with DV) also has a dramatically easier workflow as far as creative's are concerned, so combine that with the reduced licencing cost for manufacturers and there's very little reason to choose DV - the only winner there is Dolby.

    It's not yet announced, but recommending DV over HDR10+ may not be such good advice.
  • pjcamp - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    The one thing you didn't mention is what keyboard you are using. I haven't been happy with any of the ones I've used so a little help would be, well, helpful.
  • DIE_BETA_SOY_BOYS - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    "budget"

    What a useless article
  • watersb - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    I, for one, enjoyed this write-up very much. I have been out of the AV Zone for a decade, but as a musician and PC enthusiast I was curious to see how this played out.

    A write-up like this: I have done similar tests for audio-only gear, and it took 50 hours of work. Maybe I'm too slow.

    And finally, this may be a dumb question, but for a Home Theater setup, what keyboard/pointing device work best for you? I need to get something. My ten-year-old Gyration Mouse/keyboard has died. Not kidding. It was great. Backlit keyboard that can see duty as primary PC keyboard preferred.

    What are you all using?
  • Shaan1969 - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    watersb, Logitech K830 (~$50) is the best one with long lasting rechargeable battery with back-lit option. I have been using it for the last few years without any issues.
  • watersb - Tuesday, January 2, 2018 - link

    Thanks! Was on my list, at $50 the price has come down a bit since last I looked.
  • Shaan1969 - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    Ganesh, thank you for taking time to write up a great article. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and planning to upgrade my HTPC accordingly this weekend.
    Everyone's definition of budget is different and I wish readers focus on the content of the article rather than accusing the writer.
  • milkod2001 - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    good read, you might want to also upgrade those curtains granny bought and insisted to use when on last visit while you are in this upgrading process.
  • UtilityMax - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    This situation with the high cost and pain-in-the-butt involved in 4K HTPC setup compared to buying Playstation 4, Xbox, or Roku reminds me of a similar situation that happened with home routers in the late 1990s. As the Internet connections started becoming more affordable (be it dialup or broadband) a whole lot of geeks wanted to come up with solutions so that their entire home network could connect to the internet with just one IP address. A whole lot of them turned to setting up a dedicated PC running Linux to act as their gateway to the internet for the purpose of firewalling and network address translation (NAT). This made even people originally not interested in using Linux start exploring the Linux systems because back in the 1990s Linux distributions were way better than Windows or Macs at advanced networking stuff.

    Then an interesting thing happened. A cheap Taiwanese-made router with firewall, NAT, and a 4-5 port 100Mbps switch became available for something like 50 bucks around year 1999-2000. This has near instantly killed the concept of setting up manually a dedicated PC to act as your router gateway. Today you don't even have to buy a dedicated router, because your broadband cable modem probably already comes integrated with wifi, router, NAT, firewall, switch, and all that (mine does).

    The same way we are observing the situation where various set top boxes or "sticks" costing under a couple of hundred bucks, gaming consoles, and even smart TVs have pretty much near eliminated the whole point of building a dedicated HTPC. HTPC is basically a dinosaur.

    Combine that with the fact that most people out there still don't give a damn about 4K content, don't have 4K TVs, don't have access to 4K cable (duh!), and don't want to pay for either 4K BD discs or for high speed internet conections required for 4K streaming, and you see why building your own HTPC is going to be just like banging your head against a wall.
  • rapster - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    Totally agree. The NVIDIA Shield has - for me - made the PC moot. This time around I based my system on a Shield that streams from the internet and Synology disk array, a “budget” receiver, a BD player, some great speakers, and an old 1080p TV. Not even sure what use a PC would serve.
  • mikato - Thursday, January 18, 2018 - link

    Sounds good. I’ll have to check out the Shield. But you can’t bring this to a friend’s house and plug into their TV or home theater. I want that too :)
  • mikato - Thursday, January 18, 2018 - link

    Great point, and I also agree... unless you want local storage for media content. Sure I guess the response would be to have a PC (when we had been leaving out the PC) or a NAS feed content with DLNA or whatever that is with Plex or Kodi over the network. But then you have quite a bit more than just whatever box or stick. And if you wanted to bring your content with you to a friend’s house, you couldn’t do that, when you might be able to pretty easily with one of the UCFF PCs with a disk in it. Plus I’ll add that would be able to play anything, when for instance you might not be able to play YouTube with your Amazon stick or play Amazon with your Google stick.

    We’re close, but not quite there yet. What is there does cover things enough for a lot of people though.
  • Duto - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    A TCL TV set?, really? , unbelievable!
  • rapster - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    Thank you for your thoughtful review of some of the tricks, traps, and solutions of the 4K HDR space. As someone who recently had to deal with a few of the challenges you worked through I really appreciate it. Your recommendation of the NVIDIA Shield is especially well-considered and would have saved me a lot of time for my applications. The comments section here has some gold to be mined as well.

    As for budget: I paid twice as much for my receiver as the $999 one you recommended and still consider it to be a budget unit. Anybody who has been to a "real" media equipment store understands this. Sorry to be "that guy" on my first post here, but I might suggest it's time for some folks (cough ddriver) to leave mom's basement and that job at the mall and get out more.
  • ronraxxx - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    THANK YOU - I was getting so triggered reading these comments. "Budget" is relative. A brand new Kia costs $10,000 - it's still a *budget* vehicle in the world of new cars. Real home theater equipment is expensive - the key word being "THEATER." If you want a true, immersive, theater-like experience it usually is very expensive. If you only have $1000 to spend on your home "theater" I hate to break it to you but the TV, soundbar, and Roku that fits your budget isn't really a theater at all, unless you're in a dorm room.
  • Reflex - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    This right here. People get hung up on the word Budget. If the author could do one thing differently IMO it would be to define what the actual price tiers he is using are. People could yell all they wanted about how a $500-2000 range for budget receives isn't 'budget' in their world, but at least they'd know the author's definition.

    Honestly the compromise he made in this that I wouldn't have is the TV. Nothing against TCL, but seriously if you are building a theater it seems like what you look at should be the number one priority. I spent about $3k in total on my setup (budget!) and $2k of that was the tv. There is also the consideration of space, in my case the space permitted isn't theater quality or size, so the 'budget' consideration is different as spending $10k on speakers would gain me nothing in the space allowed.

    I'd like to see Anandtech cover this space. I like the practical approach they took here and the mostly plain language. I like how the final reccomendation list had options on most of the items so people could easily define their priorities. But if they do go forward they should define some basic terms like what is considered 'budget' for both individual components and for a total setup, and what kind of spaces they are trying to address (dedicated theater? living room? corner of a bedroom?). With that in place most of the arguments in this thread become pedantic noise.
  • Bullwinkle-J-Moose - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link

    " The comments section here has some gold to be mined as well."
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well thank you for those kind words Rapster, and remember kids......
    If you can't sing, you can always Rap!
  • FreckledTrout - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    I agree completely. I have about 2.5K into my home theater sound(not including anything not sound related) and I felt that was rather budget oriented. I did put about $700 into a SVS subwoofer which in my opinion is what makes or breaks most home theater builds.
  • Lau_Tech - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    Assuming the point of the article was to promote the receiver... Why not just focus on reviewing the receiver? Many sites have also compared htpc with Xbox and ps4s.. An article on that would have been useful as well.

    As it stands the article simply feels amateurish and unfocused. What article on setting up a home theater (budget or otherwise) focuses on the receiver and htpc at the cost of the cornerstone elements:TV and speakers?

    I truly do not know why efforts were expended in this new, odd direction when other product reviews are in higher demand.
  • HStewart - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    One thing I curious about is GPU support for UHD. It appears you need Intel 630 or higher in Kaby Lake or the Xbox. Note even thought Xbox has older generation CPU and GPU, Microsoft must have modified the GPU to support UHD 4k. My guess is both NVidia and AMD will follow suit next year.

    One things that this defunct is claims that Kaby Lake is no different than previous generations Intel processors. And unfortunately for me having older i7, it can't be claimed that Intel is just doing this for people to buy new cpus - since both NVidia and AMD don't support it.
  • The Jedi - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link

    Thanks Ganesh, good article. With a 4K Android TV and an Ultra HD Blu-Ray player, the HTPC's days are past. Me personally, I will keep my Windows Media Center HTPC for the DVR functionality, indefinitely.

    The standalone UHD Blu-Ray player is simpler, cheaper, and no-nonsense.

    Android TV is something for services to rally around. Even with the security platform provided by Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake and Windows 10, services besides Netflix are not rushing to bring 4K to the PC.

    A year ago I was so psyched about upgrading to a Kaby Lake i7 to be on the latest system and get onboard and support the PC 4K ecosystem. What impressed me was that Intel was working on overcoming the challenges that kept 4K discs and 4K services away from the PC. But, I decided I didn't really need it or Coffee Lake, and it was cheaper to keep my investment in DDR3. I upgraded to a Haswell Refresh instead.
  • Alreyouano - Monday, January 1, 2018 - link

    Sir, good day, im new in the home theater field. May i know what kind of speakers and how many do i need to buy to set up a 7.1.2 home theater at home. Thank you.
  • Reflex - Monday, January 1, 2018 - link

    Well to start the number you listed there actually tells you the total. 7.1.2 = 7 surround speakers (two front left/right, one center, one on each side, two behind), 1 subwoofer and 2 upwards firing drivers or ceiling mounted speakers for the space above the viewer.

    As to brands and so on you need to make certain your receiver or soundbar supports Dolby Atmos, I suggest avsforums.com for more info and user preferences.
  • Golgatha777 - Monday, January 1, 2018 - link

    That would be 10 speakers if you include the subwoofer.

    5 up front (R,L,C, RP, LP), 4 in the back (RS, LS, RSB, LSB), and the subwoofer.
  • Reflex - Tuesday, January 2, 2018 - link

    I think that's what I said? You included the RS/LS as 'back' and I listed them separately as "one on each side" in my description. One question I would have for you though: The upwards firing ones, if you only have 2 of them should they be front or back?

    I'm using a Samsung HW-K950 so it has four upwards firing drivers, but in a 7.1.2 you'd only have 2 presumably unless you drop the sides...
  • Alreyouano - Tuesday, January 2, 2018 - link

    Thank you.
  • kallek - Friday, January 5, 2018 - link

    My biggest problem with HTCP's is the stutter from playing 23.976 clips. Using Reclock helps but it only works with some programs and I haven't got it to work well with DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby True HD
  • Vorl - Monday, January 15, 2018 - link

    So, I haven't read all 18 pages of comments, so if this has been mentioned already, sorry.

    Why a 4k tv? They are a gimmick. If you sit more than a couple feet from your 55' TV, you can't see the difference. Here is a good link to explain it. https://referencehometheater.com/2013/commentary/4...

    Sure, you can see the difference if you were gaming, and sitting NEXT to your monitor, but most people sit several to many feet from their TV, so even a big tv at 4k isn't something you can see. A lot of extra cost for no real gain.
  • mikato - Thursday, January 18, 2018 - link

    Fun time reading the comments :) I’d just like to say that I came here and read it for the HTPC info. I would like to make a (better) HTPC but I won’t be upgrading my old home theater setup, so I wasn’t looking for stuff about receivers, TVs, etc. Doesn’t matter to me, but just figured I’d throw in my perspective. If I bought a new house or something, then I might be interested in that stuff. But as it is, I’ll be using what I have now for those items which work pretty darn well.
  • iescheck2 - Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - link

    It is not clear to me if the ASRock Beebox-S 7200U or Intel NUC7i7BNHX can stream Dolby True HD and DTS-HD MA through the HDMI to the AV receiver. Comparing those setups to a i5 notebook, what would be the advantages and disadvantages of each, since they may be similar in price?
  • prateekprakash - Saturday, July 21, 2018 - link

    Greetings @ganeshts .
    It would be great if you did a follow-up article, now that HDR & wcg mode works much better on windows 10.

    I have a query: does the HDMI out of the pc go into the AVR, and the 4k60p out of the AVR goes to the TV?

    I am asking this because I have my Sony x800d TV connected to my GTX 1060 HDMI out, and the windows sound icon shows only stereo and 5.1 as available options (the 7.1 option is greyed out).
    Does that mean GTX 1060 HDMI out is limited to 6 channels only? Or is it somehow related to my msi b250 Mobo?
    If I routed
    GPU HDMI out>>AVR source in>>AVR>>AVR HDMI out>>TV
    Would it then show 7.1 option?

    I am new to home theatre space, and I intend to set-up my first home theatre, so I thought it would be wise to learn about it.
  • stony.sk8 - Wednesday, September 19, 2018 - link

    good day, based on this review I bought Intel NUC7i7BNHX1 with HyperX Impact 8GB DDR4. when I turn on windows 10 HDR so Warcraft (2016) 4K UltraHD BluRay (x265 HEVC 10bit) seka. when I turn it off everything goes but sometimes it snaps too, but it is not terrible. I play it on power dvd 18. Own oled tv 65b7.

    The question is when I'm going HDR in the win and I'll run this fil-it'll be with hdr? and what is it about hdr in win? I do not accept that the pc would not do it. thanks for the reply

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