Intel does its very well known unethical tricks and scums again as nowadays this is what Intel knows best, BUT it is anandtech.com and all the other sites of technical/ technological content that they need to prove that they are decent and clear. Anandtech should right away correct its headlines regarding that "fake news" 28 core Intel's CPU 5.0GHz: Coming in Q4. Because if it doesn't, the guys here and the other sites are part of the problem and certainly got paid for that headline. Just my two cents.
So smoke and mirrors accompanied by a (too) late update from their side that will garner in no way the same attention as the original "OMG 28corses and 5gigahetzes" articles that hit all mainstream tech media?
In the light of such practices maybe it would make sense to cover all Intel future events with a few weeks of delay or by always highlighting that "we cannot confirm that Intel has indeed achieved this result or it's just another case of misdirection".
P.S. I don't know what's more upsetting. That Intel is still reduced to tricks in order to get media attention or that AT is so tame when approaching the subject of being lied to and tricked into advertising that lie.
"Intel Confirms Some Details about 28-Core 5 GHz Demonstration". The title feels more like a backrub than the slap they deserved. At least Tom's Hardware didn't feel like they need to extend any courtesy for such a lie.
True... but meh. In the end when its all out, what will matter is performance verified by trusted 3rd party reviews on shipping retail product (not "hand picked" engineering samples). Depending on what you are looking for keys will be price per performance and performance per watt vs what AMD has out at the time. Anything prior to that is all hype.
@close I agree. Disappointed with Anandtech's soft approach to this. Intel is gaining more than they are losing with this announcement when they DON'T deserve to.
Guess they (tech journalists in general) are still in shock that Intel managed to make their collective experience redundant by managing to sell them a magic 28 core 5GHz CPU that somehow needs a mini-fridge to keep it cool and the most ghetto rig that ever made it such a presentation as a legit CPU.
And none of them smelled a rat. Nobody suspected enough to at least point it out from the get go.
Either this or they don't dare challenge Intel on anything and just dance as they're told. Given the mild reaction I think it's both in AT's case.
And I'm not getting my hopes up, they'll fall for it every time as they've been doing for years ever since Anand (the guy who would have been able to actually spot the fake and call it) left.
I'm pretty sure Ian is smart enough to spot the discrepancies here. More likely, he is extending professional courtesy (to a company that doesn't deserve it) in his handling of the situation. If this were a company that was not known for shenanigans, then handling it with a bit of delicacy would be considered appropriate.
Did anyone here really think this would be released running all cores at that speed? The kind of people reading reports on tech sites would know this was heavily overclocked. This is a storm in a tea cup. Still a silly idea by Intel as it makes them look desperate which is hardly good PR.
If the 5 GHz absolutely needs to stay, just adding the total power consumption (system+cooling) (in the style "@X.X kW") would go a long way to making the picture the title conveys complete.
The title won't change. The author implies he was mislead by Intel in every regard but his reaction to finding the truth is the equivalent of giving Intel a footrub.
This has to be one of the most embarrassing moments for the editors of AT in recent times. Showing that they can be tricked into tricking their readers and even when the gig is up al they can say is "thank you sir, can I have another sir".
Puts the impartiality of all their reviews in perspective. And I thought calling an Intel CPU "king of the hill" when everyone called it "too little to late" to be the "rock bottom; we can only go up from here" moment.
Plus the second they criticize Intel they start getting review samples a month late. Or not at all.
So the lesson here? Never touch anything Intel until at least a month after it goes on sale and you can get some proper reviews from anyone who's willing to buy the product and make an honest assessment. Not from someone who will polish it just to get samples in the future.
You already know that most of people just read the headlines. So disenthrall Anandtech from inapt courtesy to the well known deceitful and correct the headlines.
My take on all of this is that Intel just released the x299 platform 1 year ago if they can not make a CPU that will run on a 1 year old platform and not force people that want a new CPU for the platform to upgrade their 1 year old board then just do not do it at all. Heck AMD just released a 32/64 & 24/48 setup which will drop straight into the current x399 boards and run without to much issue but ideally they will run better on a new refreshed x399 main board. The point is AMD made a huge step forward with core count but at the same time did it so their current x399 customers can also enjoy the new CPU's without having to spend a huge amount of cash on a totally new setup like intel most likely is going to do here.
Not until after the diehard Intel fankids came out clucking about this setup like you could just order a chip off Newegg and slap it in any X299 board and BAM 5Ghz monster. I'd definitely have approached anything with a chiller attached to it with a little skepticism.
What expect from a website, that carries those viral ads at the bottom of each article, with their click baity misleading headlines, and have ads to Chinese dating sites, that took me all of a few seconds to find out by Google are outright scams!!!
Anandtech does not mind taking advertising revenue from people who deceive and steal, so why should they care about their article headlines.
It's a good way to filter out tech sites that present strong bias for any reason. Linus Tech Shits is another one of those guys who only presented the "awesome CPU" with absolutely no post-revelation rebuff or update because he relies on freebies sent by Intel.
My original thought was " They've been trying for 20 years to crack 5Ghz in a production CPU.I'm surprised they managed to do it". So the admission it was overclocked was disappointing.
However aren't people going A LITTLE overboard in all the 'cry foul' comments about Anandtech helping Intel lie to consumers and builders?
It's not like they actually put it on the market and told people this, people bought and then said: "Hey, you lied to us!". It was a marketing ploy, and no one actually lost anything.
To be clear, besides a sense of disappointment this wasn't as big a crime as it's being made out to be. Be thankful that it was such a small indiscretion because now you are all on guard for the next time you are told something by Intel and don't wait to have it confirmed.
To be fair though, hasn't Intel done this enough in the past for you all to have learnt this lesson by now?
I understand you can only do so much here and you can’t say with certainty Intel is bs’ing you, but it should be obvious to all that the ‘going off script’ mistake just so happened to be perfectly positioned to steal the thunder of the AMD announcement to almost immediately follow. Funny how that worked.
I disagree. All they've done is throw into relief the difference between the chips and allowed AMD to reference the phase change cooling in their briefing. If anything their obfuscation of the truth has helped AMD.
(It's not like Intel didn't already have a 28-core CPU available and on the market, after all...)
Obviously the intention of the announcement was to take focus from AMD's launch, but the way they've done it suggests strongly to me it they ballsed-it-up - they would have achieved a much better result if they'd just told the truth!
The "obfuscation of truth" (the lying) hasn't help AMD. This was a marketing stunt and it worked. That particular day I got more articles about this in my news feed than AMD ever managed to garner, even when launching truly revolutionary parts.
I can all but guarantee you this "obfuscation of truth" article will mostly fly under the radar. Especially since the title is so tame and the important part of the article is not there: "Intel misleadingly used an overclocked system with extreme cooling for their demo".
Yes, I'll call a "Hailea HC-1000B, which is a 1 HP water chiller good for 1500-4000 liters per hour and uses the R124 refrigerant to reduce the temperature of the water to 4 degrees Celsius. Technically this unit has a cooling power of 1770W" and multiple additional high power fans as extreme cooling.
It didn't work. My feed had way more articles about AMD's new threadrippers than it did about Intel, all of them referencing the 32 core TRs. Maybe you should read more widely.
The same argument works both ways. In the meantime many other tech websites that decided do not crawl at Intel's feet and slam them for this admitted that it was done to steal AMD's thunder. Most of the comment agree. And I'm talking about big sites.
Not much of show down on those. Different price segments, different user targets. Personally I would not go for TR2 24c or 32c chips, those are too much crippled by memory channels to be worth it(core count is not always everything). If there's a need for more cores then single socket Epyc and some EATX board for it.
Look closely at the video on the "Paul’s Hardware" youtube-channel and you'll see the model name of the Gigabyte board printed near the PCI-e slots: "SKL-SP 1S"
Actual quote from WCCFTech: >We cannot confirm whether the overclock was on air cooling, liquid cooling or LN2 but it would be great if overclocking is indeed this great on the next Core-X parts. They did not even need confirmation from Intel, it was freaking obvious.
Your headline was strictly misleading. There is no way Intel marks 28 core CPU with 5GHz, even i it's only boost clock. There is no 5GHz 28 core CPU coming in Q4, you lied, intentionally or not.
You must be part of Intel's PR team. You guys messed up. Hardcore. Even I, someone who has owned both Intel and AMD stocks throughout the years, dumped Intel when leaks of this first came out. Intel has basically lost their leadership in the x86/x86-64 market. They advertised to everyone that they had a 5 GHz 28 core system, when instead, they had a 28 core overclocked system that costs close to $300/mo to run in even the cheapest parts of the world. Meanwhile, AMD has a 24/32 core system that spanks the crap out of Intel's own 28 core "beast". Reminds me of Intel's 1.13 GHz recall all over again.
That's the thing, how you market it makes a big difference. If a company claims to have gotten a product to a certain speed on liquid nitrogen, all web pages will talk about how it got there with liquid nitrogen, because that says the chip can't get there through conventional methods. The article on Anandtech was, "Intel’s 28-Core 5 GHz CPU: Coming in Q4". This says the chip is being marketed as a 5GHz CPU, not a 28 core CPU that they managed to clock to 5GHz with exotic cooling. It isn't a 5GHz CPU, it is a 3.4GHz CPU, or whatever the speed would be when it does launch.
Anandtech has made a number of updates in the body of the article to clarify things, but the title of the article was never changed to be accurate. Intel does not have a 28 core 5GHz chip in the development pipeline, let alone shipping in the 4th quarter.
There’s nothing wrong showing their own chip’s overclocking capability, which is the main target audience and not those bang-4-the-buck-gud-enuff shoppers. AMD had a chance to overclock theirs but they didn’t because Zen is terrible at it. Remember how AMD lied about Ryzen being an “overclockers dream.” Yeah AMD got humbled after that mess.
There's nothing wrong with showing off your overclocking capabilities, no. There IS something wrong with implying this is stock speeds and not an overclock that requires exotic cooling.
No, but they sure as hell did their best to obscure just how not-stock this is (i.e. this is clearly not trivially achievable) and they asked the crowd if they want to be able to buy it. So yeah, deliberately misleading - a bait-and-switch at best.
No one with half a brain would OC a 28 core monstrosity to 5GHz. If you want 5GHz, or more, then go with CFL & if you want more cores ~ well there's TR part deux. Why is anyone defending this PR stunt by Intel, seriously all of the press was misled & yet they get the blame!
The entire point of the demonstration was to mislead people who don't follow CPUs closely into thinking if AMD can do 24 or even 32 cores at something close to 4 GHz, Intel can do the same at 5. It's incredibly important to them to make people believe they have inherently superior hardware so that prospective buyers don't even do the value comparison with AMD. My girlfriend just told me yesterday that 'AMD are louder and need more power'. That's exactly the intended result.
Waah AMD’s CPU can’t overclock well. Therefore, shame on intel for overclocking theirs. This is a HEDT CPU. Intel showcased what their audience wanted and that is its overclocking ability. If anyone only wanted a dumped down workstation processor they’ll get a Threadripper.
The overclocking ability is maybe 4.7GHz at most, not 5GHz. If a typical closed loop liquid cooler or air cooling can't get a chip stable at a given speed, then it is not hitting that speed as an overclock. Even a "it only crashes once per hour" is not a valid stable overclock, even if you can run your benchmarks to completion.
Basic concept, if Intel chips can be overclocked that easily, then why not just sell the chips at the higher clock speeds and leave it at that, instead of selling them in an underclocked form? It is because Intel wants the room to claim that each new generation chip is faster than the previous, even though they haven't really improved their chips all that much over the past six years!
AMD chips overclock just fine, everyone likes to pretend the motherboard vendors having to catch up to a new architecture with firmware updates somehow permanently crippled Zen parts.
The issue here is that the intel demo used a rig that is only accessible to hedge fund managers. No remotely mainstream consumer, and probably 99% of their HEDT market, could afford the components to build the absurd cooling loop they used, the highly custom motherboard (29VRM???) and the power bill associated with operating this rig. It was incredibly dishonest to market it as a part that could OC like this, when it can only do so with many thousands of dollars of supporting equipment and dozens of hours of tuning.
There is also something that many have missed, and that is that the motherboard itself had four 8-pin power connectors on it to provide the power to the socket needed. No motherboard that will ever be sold for the shipping Intel 28 core chip will provide that. Even if someone was willing to get a chiller to match the cooling of this Intel demo, no one will be able to buy a motherboard to allow it to happen.
This would be like a single video card with six 8-pin power connectors on it for a demo. At no time would any company ship a video card with that many 8-pin power connectors on it, so a demo that shows a super-cooled video card running at very high speeds would also be something that no amount of cooling would make a consumer be able to hit those speeds.
The fact that articles were talking about the Intel 28-core 5GHz chip, which it is not, just shows how much of an intended deception the whole thing is.
The fact that Intel would borrow from their top Xeon design for an overclockable enthusiast part is significant news. There is still a lot we don't know, but that's not unusual for trade show announcements for forward leaning products.
Not Ryan and Ian though. Their title still says "Intel’s 28-Core 5 GHz CPU: Coming in Q4". No update there. Because they're too professional to change an obviously misleading title. That would upset Int... err... I mean they "care too much".
Nobody watching AdoredTV videos thought that. If you actually pay attention to the resentation you will see how Intel brags about having maximal all-core performance.
Yeah but why not be honest about it? The problem doesn't appear to be that it was overclocked it's that Intel have been so cagey and coy about things like power consumption and cooling.
You could not be more wrong if your name was Wrong Wrongly Wrong.
1) Your statement would only be true if the target audience cools their system with an industrial-strength water chiller - in other words, nobody.
2) If the goal of the demonstration was to show the overclockability of their 28-core chip then they failed badly, since a chip that requires such exotic cooling is not a good overclocker.
3) HEDT customers, the target audience, generally don't care about overclockability - they care about stability and performance (at stock) more than anything else. It is usually gamers with quad/hex-cores who do care about extreme overclocking, not those with 16+ core chips.
You can't even say that that Intel chip can be overclocked through normal means to 5GHz. That isn't overclocking capability in the way that those who use liquid nitrogen to cool chips can say that they run their machines at those speeds 24x7.
Overclocking capability means just that, what speeds can you overclock to with NORMAL cooling methods, and I would even include closed loop coolers like a Corsair H110i at this point, since these things are not unusual in this day and age.
If Intel is not going to be selling their chips with these speeds as realistic targets for EVERYONE to be able to hit, then it doesn't deserve big headlines. This includes liquid nitrogen, but when high speeds are hit on liquid nitrogen, it gets mentioned very clearly, meaning, normal people will not be seeing those speeds.
What motherboard and chipset will the 28 core Intel chip require when it gets launched? How much power will it consume with a normal release version? AMD demos chips with a normal motherboard, and even if they were to show an overclock, it wouldn't be with a specially created motherboard that can pump more voltage to the chip than what even the highest end motherboard will provide at launch.
If AMD can get their 28-32 core chips to run at the same 3.4GHz that Intel 28 core chips are currently running at with Xeon, that isn't even the case of AMD being behind. If Intel can release faster chips to stay ahead of AMD, at this point, Intel will do that.
Intel is running out of room to improve clock speeds without a true improvement to the Core architecture, so all Intel is doing is boosting clock speeds closer to the true maximum speed. Four generations ago, Intel had chips that could be clocked to 5GHz, but never bothered to release them at that speed, so they released them at slower speeds. With each generation, they just set the speed a bit higher, without the need to really improve the chip. We saw that Intel is close to the limit because the i7-7700k had problems with thermal throttling, to the point where complaints were met with a, "you should not overclock the chip" due to temperature issues.
Intel may have improved things a bit, or using something better than "toothpaste" for a TIM might allow them to get a bit more room to increase the official speeds for another generation or two, but that is about it. Intel is stuck, they got into the habit of just improving their fab process to allow for higher clock speeds, without doing significant design improvements that would allow for higher clock speeds.
AMD really didn't do too bad for the first generation, 3.2-3.6GHz base with an overclock to 4.0. Second generation has gotten as high as 4.3GHz, though 4.1-4.2GHz is more common(outside of the 2700X which has a 105watt TDP). The fact that every chip is unlocked, allowing people to overclock to the potential of the chip, compared to a very limited number of unlocked chips on the Intel side, and AMD even releasing software to allow consumers to overclock via software, something Intel does NOT provide, is probably where you got confused about "an overclockers dream" being a comment made.
Ryzen 3rd generation in 2019, with Zen 2 cores and a 7nm fab process is the chip that will probably get Ryzen to the point where you can clock it to 5GHz on air on all eight cores. Since Intel can barely get to 5.2GHz, if Ryzen 3rd generation can hit 5.0GHz, any advantage Intel had will be gone. Also, what sort of speeds will we see from Intel chips that don't have Meltdown vulnerabilities?
" it does mean that the base TDP for a ‘retail’ processor will be much lower" because no one wants to ship a >1 kilowatt water cooler as the pack-in heatsink.
Anyone who buys one of these already expects to pay $1000 for the cooler as well. This thing won't be aimed at the masses. I'm excited. Been wanting a 250 W chip for a long time
You will be able to get one, from AMD, next quarter. Also, it won't require a 1kw cooler to score those cinebench scores...and it'll cost significantly less than the intel offering.
Neither will this one. It was cherry picked by the manufacturer, you can expect it was the best piece of silicon off the assembly line. So expect your's to go some 100s of MHz lower for the same power. And that cooling requirement makes it absolutely useless to anyone not looking to brag about a benchmark.
Nice shilling though. Everybody already agreed this was a publicity stunt, you're the last to get the news that you won't actually be getting this the way you imagine it.
If the motherboard design won't be copied(four 8-pin power connectors on the motherboard itself), then it isn't just a cherry picked CPU, it is a motherboard that was built just for this demo to be able to deliver enough power to the CPU socket.
I am sure that AMD, even with Ryzen and Threadripper being fairly young designs, could figure out how to get to 5GHz if they came up with a special socket and motherboard as well as custom cooling. It might require a lot of extra power as well, and cooling, but it wouldn't be realistic. They could probably release a single core chip that runs at 7GHz at this point if they saw a value or a reason to do it, but the overall industry knows that dual-core is garbage in real-world situations, quad-core is the real minimum that people would want, and 6-8 cores is the sweet spot for the consumer space.
That you're being so casual about this indicates that you're most likely talking complete and utter nonsense. Since when does anyone "expect" to pay $1000 for a cooler? Since nowhere is the answer seeing as $1000 off-the-shelf solutions aren't really a thing and no stock CPU ever released has needed anything like that.
No they don't. And less so if there's a better alternative from amd. Funny how when it comes to intel, price/price-perf/stability/optimisation etc. doesn't matter. Only the shiny "5ghz" matters. But when it comes to amd it's all "bulldozers" and "vega1000watts". Intel should focus more on r&d and less on pr/theft/blackmail.
So, this was an epic balls-up by Intel on all accounts.
Dunno who thought it would be a good idea to try to obfuscate the chiller and overclocked nature but they should be beaten with a sack full of Prescott heatsinks for even suggesting it.
I mean really.
If Intel had come out and said "look at what our CPUs can do under extreme cooling conditions - 28 cores at 5GHz", the tech world would have gone "wow, that's impractical but cool" (apart from the AMD fanboys who would have thrown popcorn as usual)
Instead they've created a whole poonami of criticism because it looks like they've tried to hide what they've done and claim things they haven't.
+1 , especially on the Prescott heatsink spanking. Instead of engaging in a downright Eagerly awaiting the video of that on youtube. This juvenile "my chip runs at higher GHz than yours" vs. AMD, show some real life upsides. One of them is the ability to run AVX-512 extensions, which results in a huge speed-up of those applications that make use of it. Of course, that wouldn't have been at anywhere near 5 GHz (esp. not on all 28 cores), but would have given Intel something meaningful to crow about.
Reaction of panicked guys. Read this : https://www.forbes.com/sites/tiriasresearch/2018/0... It explains quite perfectly why they're acting with such confusion. They were not prepared to zen and AMD execution, may be too focused on nVidia and Arm threats. If Global Foundries accelerates and is able to increase 7 nm production, they will loose huge market share in the coming years, in all CPU fields.
You guys need to become much more cynical and write the stories as such.
If a couple of hours earlier Intel made a big deal about releasing the 8086 that could turbo to 5GHz on one core, how on earth could you conclude that a 28 core machine running 5 GHz on all cores could be anything but a PR stunt?!?
Headline should have been along the lines of: "Intel shows 5GHz on 28 cores - likely a cynical PR stunt" Sub headings should have been: "- no details forthcoming" "- box shrouded in darkness" "- water pipes coming from box" "- cooling system unknown" "- coincidence that AMD are likely to be talking about Threadripper 2 tomorrow?"
Then if Intel have a problem with it - they'll have to back up their argument with facts, figures and details.
As it is, they've played you (along with most of the rest of the tech press) unfortunately.
I have to admit, these statements irk me. It puts me into a position where I have to prove a negative. That no one - not our publisher, not Intel, not Darth Vader himself - told us what to write.
Everything in this article is Ian's take on the matter as a professional journalists. I have no idea whose ads are running on this article, nor do I care. That is our advertising department's concern, and the departments are compartmentalized specifically for the reasons of editorial integrity. We don't even accept sponsored travel (i.e. every last bit is paid out of our own pockets) so that we can maintain this integrity. That's how important it is to us.
So to insinuate or imply that this article is dishonest and that Ian is writing what he is being told to write is disrespectful to him and all the effort he's put into this and other articles chasing down the facts.
Frankly if we wanted to just write things for other people, we could go get PR jobs and get paid twice as much to do half the work.
Your articles were fine and you undated them as events unfolded. AT remains a go to site for tech news.
Any complaints should really be aimed solely at Intel for their deception, intended or not (I lean towards intended but perhaps the pressure from above pushed some marketing folks beyond ethical boundaries). Seems to me that it all ended blowing up in Intel's face and just highlights how well AMD is doing in the HEDT arena.
I think its important to look at this from all sides, Intel clearly had a goal with this demonstration, and by all accounts they accomplished what they intended to on day one.
However, playing games with the truth will always have consequences, in this case, intel has'nt just played in a grey area, they outright lied about what they were going to offer as a real product.
This CPU as it was demonstrated will never be offered as a system. They promoted it as such and that is deception plain and simple.
The media outlets that promoted this at face value should be doing CLEAR and DIRECT clarifications about what it really was.
While I understand that nobody wants to bite the hands that feed them, calling this BS out is no less than critical to maintain any level credibility with the readers that know better.
I use both AMD and Intel products, none of BS marketing materials that get put out influence my choices, I actually test and build systems myself to make those determinations.
The last system I built that was an Intel was a 6800k based system, I do not find the kind of value that my customers need in the current crop of Intel CPU's. I "almost" got duped into buying into the latest X299 platform, but when I saw Intel's BS PCI-e Lane game I stopped and waited to see what the rest of the market was going to do.
It became amazingly clear to me where the market was heading when suddenly the previous platform, the X99 mainboards and CPUs became VERY scarce in the used market. Mainstream Server hardware i.e. the E5-2620 V4 CPU's became hard to find and the prices jumped.
Folks simply avoided the new Intel Platform because it was clear that intel was resorting to tricks and was punishing power users by forcing them to buy $1000.00 or higher CPU's with the new platform to see the same PCI-e benefits that we used to get across the board.
Intel tried to play the public, the buying public didn't bite, AMD came back to the table with a new platform with Ryzen and Threadripper/Epyc, it wasn't 100% mature but it had real potential. Intel will now pay for its lack of vision and its clear efforts to take advantage of no real competition for the last 3-5 years. Intel was at a Crossroads, they took the low road and are now on that road alone.
This latest "demo" was simply a desperate attempt to remain relevant in a market they are now behind in.
The fact that they are having REAL issues with their 10nm process is an indication that they sat and waited too long. Why spend research dollars on new and better tech when nobody is pushing them to do so? Because eventually, even after 5-7 years of no challenge, things change, they always do.
With Ryzen, and Threadripper/Epyc 2 the other shoe just dropped and Intel is now standing there flat footed and is throwing anything and everything they can at AMD to stop the bleeding.
Last year I invested in a Threadripper desktop, it wasnt perfect but its been running stable now for 9 months, I have every reason to believe that the new TR2 Part with 32 Cores will be able to drop into my existing board with minor firmware updates.
My X99 Platform while old, is stable and still able to do what I need to with it. Intel has offered ZERO compelling products to replace it. All of the new gear they have is 35-40% more expensive with what appears to be a dead end platform in X299. While AMD is extending their Thier new platform and offering new motherboard refreshes. You can buy a new board, but its not yet required for you to enjoy the new CPU's, not yet at least.
Intel, you are going to have to earn your money again, stop pissing in the wind and making yourselves look foolish, time to eat your plate of humble pie and go back to work.
Just like AMD, you too can succeed, but don't expect us to throw money at you because of years past achievements , what have you done for us lately? What folks will remember is you promoted something that doesn't exist and we cannot buy, doesn't sound like a winning solution. You might have stolen a few headlines, but it wont matter when TR2 is on the shelves and nobody is looking to buy your non existing tech.
"This CPU as it was demonstrated will never be offered as a system"
Why not? It's already an ultra-premium single-purpose small volume platform (taking an already ultra-premium top-bin Xeon die, then putting it on a platform that makes it completely unsuitable for existing customers who would be considering the Xeon 8180), using custom-built motherboards with excessive VRMs. There is no reason it would not be sold exclusively as a pre-assembled pre-overclocked system rather than as pretend-to-be-discrete components that only assemble into one platform anyway.
It is simple, if you are looking for additional CPU cores, it would make more sense to go with an Epyc or Threadripper setup. High clock rates for these types of systems will help, but if you are paying $10,000 for a chip, plus the additional parts, it makes far more sense to go with two $2000 chips that will get you the same level of performance for what you are doing.
No one is going to spend $1000 for the chiller just to cool a chip to get the same results as this demonstration. They will go for normal cooling, which means lower clock speeds than those demonstrated by Intel in this scam of a PR stunt.
So, the chip...yea, it will go into systems, but at what speeds? If they are going to have problems at 4.4GHz and Threadripper 2 32 core will hit 4.2GHz, is this Intel chip a better choice?
By that logic, nobody is going to buy an Epyc for a mere 32 cores when they could get a GV100 with 5120 CUDA cores.
Core count is meaningles without knowing how threaded a workload is, and how sensitive that workload is to single-core performance, and how sensitive it is to being split across NUMA domains (i.e. can it be clustered). There are very few workloads that are moderately threaded but need all the single-core perf they can get, but they do exist, e.g. HFT. And those workloads will pay out the nose for hardware that can do what they need.
I usually back you guys, but you screw up on this one big time. Intel magicians shown you magic tricks and you were so impressed that any of your objectivity disappeared.
Objectivity can do just so much if you are getting used and you cannot acknowledge it. Basically, Intel used you to strike the momentum from AMD... and it did work... until the truth got out.
How did anyone read these articles and not notice over all the baffled comments by AT? I didn't come away reading it thinking "this thing will be magic, run at reasonable power consumption and kil off any AMD Epyc stuff". I thought "this thing will cost more than a fighter jet and be out of reach of anyone but the 1 ‰ of the 1 ‰". Every pore of the article sounded of scepticism with a tinge of "if they pull this off, it'll be incredible", with all the references to 600W+ CPUs and the like.
Because people now has the attention span of a ADHD flea and the need to be outraged for the sake of outrage, thanks to all the 24/7 constant drama in their lives on social media.
With first glance at this article I thought “hmm Intel has answered AMD with one of 28-cores 5GHz” but anyone with some knowledge of computer tech and critical thinking would soon realize that it’s impossible for Intel to achieve this claim without massive OC’ing and cooling.
I’m sure Anandtech will verify Intel’s claim and update this article or have a new one on its own. But now this article only has unverified/vague info about Intel’s claim right before AMD’s big event which can only cause somewhat damage to AMD. It also takes out some of AMD’s momentum. I think Anandtech team would surely notice this but you guys went ahead anyway.
Far too often we as people have to question morales and ethics in our everyday life from political parties, governments, corporations, media etc.
It is nice when some review sites are NOT this way (you here at Anandtech and the folks over at [H}ard ocp, and as far as I can tell also at Gamers Nexus)
Agreed on that - it's insulting to say you folks didn't write what YOU wanted to write.
Problem I have is - if you keep falling for this crap - then they'll keep spooning it out every time they are in a tight spot. I hope in future you will bear Intel's behaviour here in mind next time you are left wondering whether to give them the benefit of the doubt or not.
Ryan I think you should take the criticism to heart that you are taking these companies at their word far to easily. Though you should ignore the whole conspiracy issue for what it is, a conspiracy theory.
There were too many things that screamed this was a setup that didn't even get mentioned. The first commenters on the article mentioned that the pictures showed what appeared to be an extreme overclocking with insulated water lines and massive VRM heatsink.
Both AMD and Intel have shown time and again that you can't take them at their word all the time. I'm not saying believe them outright, but you should be skeptical of anything they present where they are obviously concealing details. This whole presentation was stinky, and it was apparent that along with Intel's evasiveness it should have been taken very skeptically. Instead Anandtech did what every other tech publication did and presenting a glowing picture, then corrected it later when the public through comments showed the problems that were completely missed by the publisher.
@Ryan so as a reader am I to believe that you couldn't tell the difference between what's realistically achievable with current CPU tech and some pony show put up by Intel?
And when you did realize you were obviously lied to and manipulated into lying to your readers you chose to be so very delicate towards Intel and almost find excuses for them because "you care too much"?
The reader should be your priority. And as you can see so many readers are disappointed in the way you're approaching this, in the fact that you're obviously soft on Intel and it certainly looks like you're NOT impartial. A comment is not the way to address that.
But I guess you don't want to adress that. Someone will be upset either way and you'd rather it be the readers. ;)
To be fair, when there is a generational jump, moving to 10nm for instance, it MIGHT be possible to see a big jump in terms of clock speeds. 10nm is something that Intel has been working on for a LONG time, and it is sometimes possible that there will be a big announcement that makes things interesting.
Ryzen had a lot of people assuming that AMD was making a lot of noise about another CPU that wouldn't be able to compete last year, and here we are today talking about Intel trying to compete with what AMD has been able to release and not the other way around.
I am currently not in journalism, but I did minor in journalism. The first rule of GOOD journalism is to DOUBT EVERYTHING, I learned that in JOUR 205 – Reporting the News. I am sure Ian thought what he was writing was true in the original article, and the contents of the article likely weren't influenced by a major advertiser on your site. The problem is most of the knowledgeable tech journalists were highly skeptical of Intel's claims BEFORE news broke about the water chiller ($600-$1000 unit), the custom made - non consumer ready 28 phase LGA 3647 tech demo motherboard (28 phase? can you imagine how much that might run) using a non-standard (actually not even consumer available) VRM cooling solution; most the the non-credulous press were doing the basic math and coming up with possible power draws for the chip in the +1000 W range (the best numbers I saw put it around 1300W) and wondering how this could be possible when Intel couldn't even get a 6 core cpu to launch at 5ghz stock.
Why didn't Ian ask these questions like the good reporters did? I can answer that. He either a) doesn't know squat about what he's reporting (possible), OR he doesn't know how to be non-credulous, OR he let his personal biases prevent him from asking the hard questions. Either way this is horrible journalism. We have a journalist who 1. doesn't know the subject he's writing about 2. doesn't know how to not be credulous 3. allows his personal preferences and biases to influence his reporting to such an extent he forgets everything he knows about computers in order to masquerade as a propagandist for favored companies.
Whichever of the 3 reasons for his first click bait style article; he displayed shockingly poor journalistic skills. The fact that you (his editor?) are defending your journalist does make you a good boss. Unfortunately it also makes you a bad editor. With you at the helm I highly suspect articles as intentionally or unintentionally dishonest as the former one, regularly get published with little to no criticism from you or the editing staff. Furthermore, instead of apologizing for the embarrassingly misleading and polite fluff pieces for Intel we're getting here from Ian, or being angry that someone in the industry effectively pulled a wizard of oz on your credulous butts, you're angry at your readers for getting mad at being mislead by a site they used to trust.
Wrong direction to direct your ire, Ryan. You should be mad at Ian for even allowing your readers to suspect his journalism was bought and paid for. Not mad at the readers for suspecting the reasons behind this shoddy journalism. You want to know why people don't trust the tech press? Its because members of the tech press HAVE taken bribes and caved to threats for good reviews. It happens in the tech press depressingly a lot. This used to be a pretty good source of trustworthy news. After seeing your post, and Ian's "correction" to that nearly propaganda puff piece he wrote, I'm sadly going to have to toss this site in with the rest of the dubious trash out there.
Ryan insists that "That no one told us what to write." Yet he is not willing to shed any light on why they (Anandtech) are the *ONLY* major tech site to fall for Intel's deception without a hint of cynicism or skepticism, and then not publish a scathing update. No, they wholeheartedly embraced Intel's story when it broke and could only come back with "Intel could have done this better" update after the revelation that the whole audience were taken for fools.
So absent any "sponsorship", what prevented you from spotting the deception or from justifiably and openly criticizing Intel for this? "Skill"? "Spine"?
And please don't say you "care too much" again. Other journalists that care a lot still managed to be skeptical of the original details and then point out in the update that Intel purposely mislead everyone.
Hey, you are going too far. Ian was THE GUY putting the whole Ryzen Fall and CTS-Labs story for what it was. AT was at the fore front there and they did an incredible job.
Here, they just didn't put enough criticism in place and took Intel words a little too trustworthy. Intel DID present a 28 cores CPU running at 5GHz, however it was their deceiving intent that was of Ethical concern. They sold the story like it was a new product that anybody could purchase. They even got the guts to promote it as a HEDT product. All this was intentional and aimed at TR 32 cores. They used the press to sabotage the momentum and it did succeed.
All in all, I bet that Intel knew what they were doing and they decided to go this way and prepare the apologize story way ahead. For them, it was worth it on the short term, but I think they underestimate social media power now a day. Not even an Intel supporter can abide by something like this.
I gave both of them the benefit of the doubt and asked to let those silly readers of theirs know: * why the title of the original article hasn't changed although it's a lie for all intents and purposes; * why the "reveal" article is so incredibly soft that it's basically trying to put out the fire for Intel; * why did they put 5GHz in the title when the picture they took with their own hands showed 2.7GHz base clock; * why is there so much disparity between AnandTech reaction and every other tech outlet out there, including the reputable ones.
Did you see any answers? Maybe Ryan and Ian write for themselves and the readers are an afterthought. Or do you consider saying "we're to professional to reply publicly" (after being lied and embarrassed publicly) and that "we care too much" as an answer? How is any of this preventing them from having a proper response only they know.
And you have a very shaky understanding of what "Intel launches 28 core 5GHz CPU in Q4" means. Just suggesting that a journalist should be allowed to play with semantics like this disqualifies you from any conversation regarding ethics and professionalism. They mislead the reader and the admission and subsequent write-ups were done in a very hamfisted manner.
So no, I am definitely NOT going too far. Whatever comes now for AT is too little too late.
How about the image of the chiller specs where it says loud and clear it uses the internationally banned R22 ozone depleting gas? And even sports the fake CE "China Export" mark?
So with a GTX 1080 TI you would be talking 2000+ watts on that demo system? Along with what another 2000 watts on an AC unit to keep your office from melting down from all the heat the chiller is pumping out... Maybe winter only gaming rigs can become a thing.
They created a custom motherboard to make the CPU stable at 5GHz. There is no way something like that would ever a real use case. Nowaday, the real calculation is coming from GPUs.
I guess the only people that will buy this setup is either out of their mind or simply getting it for an expensive overclocking hobby. Firstly, looking at the Intel likes to milk their customer, this is surely not going to be cheap, not to mention you still need a 2000W "fridge" to cool it, and one motherboard that seems to be struggling to handle the power requirements. Secondly, the supposed efficiency that they claim so much is out of the window with a setup that easily matches the fridge that you need to switch on to keep it cool. Then we need to consider the size of both the gigantic casing to house the gigantic components, along with the "fridge" that is about the same size as the casing. If there is a point to prove here, I think it only proves that this is a poorly thought through demo and Intel is really desperate. They are a victim to their own success by sitting on it thinking that all will be fine. Now with their fab advantage gone, and the likes of AMD and ARM closing in on every segment of their core business, they really need to buck up.
I want to see someone at Asus take the same chiller used in this Intel demo and see what Threadripper 2 can be run at. I would laugh if using the same cooling allowed a 32 core Threadripper 2 to hit 5GHz as well(doubtful, but you get the point).
The chiller Intel used uses the internationally banned R22 ozone depleting gas as refrigerant (see image in article above) so no, no one should use this chiller ever. Not Intel, not anyone.
They could have had a galley of hungry children rowing to keep the CPU cool and nobody from AT would have pointed that out.
Although to be honest legally they are still allowed to use it even after 2020 when the US should reduce the usage by 99.5% below the baseline. So this would definitely cover the usage for 1 Intel parlor trick.
I would think AT staff would be a little more upset at Intel for making them a part of their deception. Clearly, they did it on purpose, as you cite in this article yourself, there's just too much circumstantial evidence that proves it was. I know I would be quite upset for being made to be a part of such shenanigans if it were my readers. I know you have to play both sides here, you're loyal readers and a powerhouse such as Intel, but it would be nice to see you drag them over the coals a bit harder, imo.
You being deceived and then deceiving the readers happened in the public eye.
Telling it as it is isn't unprofessional. Dancing around it with a speech that might as well come from a politician or a PR team certainly is. And you don't have to be insulting or vengeful about this.
A good journalist does only have manners, he also has a backbone and doesn't take being lied to so easily...
overclocked means nothing if you need to spend more money on the cooler than it would cost to buy a competing chip from the competition just to stay ahead.
What's with all the hate on AT. I thought there was sufficient information even in the early articles to draw the correct conclusion. People need to chill out.
Why can't people just look at this as a demonstration of the platform capability/prototype?
Yes, the information could have been better communicated, but as it is pointed out, that's also largely because of how INTEL disseminated their information (poorly).
To that point, I agree with Ian in that if Intel had been more transparent about HOW they accomplished this, this would have been a "much better sell" about the platform capability rather than having to try and hide what they did in order to be able to accomplish this.
And also again, if this was to be sold at $10k a pop, that would be cheap. 28 cores, all running at 5 GHz would yield a combined total of 140 GHz.
There's a LOT that I can do with that.
5 GHz also appears to be the next "holy grail" for stock speeds, especially for even enterprise customers that DON'T want to go to IBM POWER8 (which comes at a SUBSTANTIAL premium).
Not sure if anyone else has commented this yet but Intel did something much worse than just "forgetting" to mention the overclock in the demo.
They used a Hailea HC1000B water chillers which uses the internationally banned R22 HCFC gas as refrigerant.
I hope Ian sees this (or if other people mentioned it) and ask some poignant questions to Intel about their commitment to preserving the ozone layer and the environment of our planet in general.
Another Guinness World Record, the heaviest and largest PC powered by Intel CPU with a 68-lb water chiller!
What a funny and silly demo crying for attention like a kid, but requiring OS kernel relocation is the intended design, so anything from Intel is a norm!
True is that unless AT will be fully financed by readers and will by review samples.. It will be not objective.. AT in was always too Intel, Apple friendly because they too big to tell the true you them..
It's been at least a year since I even have looked at this used-to-be-great website, and I return just in time for this cringefest. Jimmy Fallon does harder-hitting interviews.
Anyone looking critically at the photos originally released of the 28C@5GHz system should recognize that they're looking at a trade show demonstration of an engineering sample processor on a prototype proprietary motherboard, cooled by a custom liquid system connected by large pipes that run to an external unit underneath on a cart. How is this deceptive or misleading- a "scam"?
The announcement was that a 28-core CPU ran all cores at 5GHz. It did that. When a competitive overclocker runs an i7-7700K at 8.5GHz for .262 seconds, with two cores and hyperthreading disabled, and there is a photo of a cobbled-together tray of liquid Nitrogen sitting on the CPU, is that a trick, "fake news"?
Anyway, while this is an note-worthy achievement, is it anymore than a curiosity to the average gamer or workstation user? Look at the specifications for the nearest Intel offering , the Xeon Platinum 8180:
> and scroll down to the line reading, " Recommended Customer Price $10009.00 - $10015.00 "
Quite funny to see there a $6 range on a $10,000 price. Watch for the spectacular one-day-only Black Friday sale at $9,999.99!
This was of course a clickbait demonstration at a trade show, but not deceptive and not a plot to trick WoW fans to impulsively slam a $10,000- or will it be $12,000? CPU on their credit card and then sit next to the post box panting for delivery.
The current core mania surprises me anyway. There are few applications multi-threaded efficiently beyond 5-6 cores. My next CPU will be an 8-core @ 5GHz - not 28-core. And I could do that tomorrow.
I daily, chant my mantra: "single thread, single thread, single thread."
It's a scam because Intel hid all of those details from the audience (as much as they could). Intel did their best to suggest that it's a "standard" CPU that will be launched as a 28 core, 5GHz part later this year and then did absolutely nothing to correct the "misunderstanding". This is the textbook definition of a scam dear commenter that registered on Anandtech just to post this ;).
But the main issue here isn't that Intel did it since it should be expected (as already proven) that Intel will stop at nothing to discredit and sabotage their competition, by illegal or immoral means. The problem is that both Ryan Smith and Ian Cutress of Anandtech took the bait, reported false information on the website, and when they discovered the deception instead of nailing Intel to the cross they played it down and all but defended Intel in this article because they "care too much" and they are "professionals".
This makes the Editor in Chief and the Senior Editor for AT look unprofessional, inexperienced, gullible, or biased (by any means). Or a combination of the above. There is no other explanation why a person in this position would allow himself to be so easily tricked and then to react so softly that it's embarrassing to look at.
I'm fully prepared to admit I've missed some important details and agree with several of your comments. On the other hand, I make a lot of judgements based on what I see, rather than the commercial wordfeed. In this example, the photos all screamed Intel panic- thanks muchly AMD! and a public demonstration of a kind of cobbled together demonstration that was obviously very far - make that very, very far- from being a product.
The things that editors write are always from a particular angle and I think in the case of shows such CES and Computex, the idea is high purity hype to stimulate attention. Who was that said, "ALL publicity is good?"
Further, even if it is inching towards release, it would be a $12,000 processor that required a very expensive chassis and cooling. With a couple of TB of RAM-t he several Teslas- and many, many TB of Drives-at least 100K.
What I'm hoping to see at Comptex is the i7-9700K 8-core that is said to be very easily persuaded to run on all cores at 5.0, and I'm praying to Zortog the Semi-Magnificent it has at least 24 PCIe lanes.
AMD has obviously woken up Intel and whatever form that takes, that's good for both of them and all of us.
Intel's product is irrelevant to my point. It's obvious now for everyone that they have nothing, at least not yet. And what they do have will be obscenely expensive.
No, my point was that a couple of senior editors with years and years of experience between them fell for this. Again! They misinformed all of their readers right there on the front page of Anandtech. And then took it lying down because Intel.
And when they did wake up and smelled the rat they wrote an article that reads more like apologizing on behalf of Intel. The whole article can be summarized by "Intel could have done this better". They should have crucified Intel for the deception but instead of that they chose to protect Intel because "they care too much" and "they are professionals".
Well it sure doesn't look that way from a reader's perspective. It looks like two journalists who (for whatever reason) fell for a very basic scam - again - and then (for whatever reason) decided to just let Intel go with a warning and a stern "could have been done better". It makes both of them look like they're missing a backbone.
And the validity of the facts in every single articles that bears their signature can be legitimately put under a major question mark. Maybe they'll skew them again because "they care too much".
The controversy revolves around how 1., a reader defines the sometimes fine lines between obfuscation, deception, and lying- in which intention is the key component, and 2., how meaningful any of these actions are in the context of a consumer trade show.
Over the years, I've been around a number of experimental components" plasma physics, linear accelerator, landers/ rovers, aerospace, advanced imaging equipment, acoustic and electronic components. As for trade shows: aerospace, cars, and- the wildest of all of these= consumer audio gear. I listen to vinyl on vacuum tube electronics and there is no technical subset with a higher, hyperspeed cattle manure quotient than high end audio. Anything in the computer world pales to high end audio. Have a look at the claims made for interconnect cables that can cost $4,000 /m. There are home speakers systems that cost $1M, $80,000 turntables, $10,000 cartridges, and $60,000 preamplifiers < Obfuscation, deception, or lying?
The result of this tourism is that experimental /prototypes become very easy to spot. The second I saw the photos of the famous 28-core, all 5GHz rig, It screamed "experimental," prototype", and "proof of concept". There was no dazzling RGB slickness and 600FPS League of Legends videos around it there. I assumed from second two onward that it was heavily overclocked and absolutely had to be running on an extreme cooling solution through those big tubes running off to the side. That processor has to be dissipating 700-800W over a very small area. Seconds three through three thousand were calculating the cost if it became a consumer product. I'm not i that consumer group, but I know a nice couple round the corner that could use a whole stack of those.
Of course, when you're on location, you can poke around, see it from every angle, and ask questions. If I'd been in the room, I would expect Intel would not provide full and exact information to every possible and natural question as they can't give away hundreds of thousands or millions of $ of research and experimental data. As well, the test rig looks so far from a being production product, many questions could not be answered.
We're discussing a mid- level experiment designed to make dramatic and tantalizing news at a trade show and not a devious plot to fool gamers into thinking they will have 969FPS with an $800 CPU and a 140mm fan. Intel did run a 28-core processor at 5GHz on all cores. The pictures tell the entire story of a promising but unfinished experiment. Everyone is free to feel how they like about it, but I'm so used to this scenario being the case with every cutting edge technology, I don't mind. To me, it only means they're trying.
I'm discussing about that time when 2 tech-experienced journalists watched a show from Intel, missed all the signs of deception, and reported the news in a way that mislead almost every reader. And when the gig was up they failed to have a proper response. Their "errata" doesn't have a tenth of the pomp and passion they put into the original "fake news".
Things don't happen in a void. This says one thing: for whatever reason they are soft on Intel. Dancing around the subject or flatly refusing to explain why the soft reaction just gives credence to the most plausible explanation: strong pro-Intel bias. Which is supported by past actions.
Now you write too much and *say* too little. This isn't about Intel cheating again. It's about why AT didn't caught it and why the reaction sounds more like covering up for Intel then professional journalism. And good for you that you caught it as soon as you saw it. Maybe you should write for AT and do a better job.
I suppose Steve Jobs demoing the first Macintosh to the enthusiastic tech press (who went wild over his use of speech synthesis, on a 512K machine that wasn't the one being made available) wasn't fraudulent either.
The first Mac, for those who don't know, shipped with 128K of RAM (not expandable!), a massive reduction from the Lisa's megabyte — which necessitated a massive reduction in operating system sophistication. It certainly couldn't do speech synthesis. It couldn't even run a hard disk.
Just face it. Fraud is always going to happen because corporations do cost/benefit calculations constantly and if their managers determine the risk (cost) is trumped by the likely benefit, then...
Jobs went on to be idolized by millions for his business acumen. Apple with Jobs is clearly not even close to the only example. Apple, for instance, was given a shipment of faulty floppy drive mechanisms when Wozniak realized he could control the floppy in software and make floppy drives much more affordable to the public. The floppy company got a fatter margin for the full units so they wanted to take away the incentive for Apple to try to buy only the mechanisms by shipping them defective goods.
In fact, be glad you're even able to voice your opinion as you have. Many sites use Disqus, which will "detect" your post as spam if you step out of the party line too much. When that happens, consider the post censored.
sIntel caught with its underwear pulled up around its neck and still not willing to own it.
I'll speculate that there are two reason for this: 1. They have an AMD counter in the works and are not yet ready to announce it. 2. They have nothing to counter AMD and are very worried about the competition.
My bet is it is 2 given that there have been less than impressive improvements in sIntel CPUs over the last several generations.
C'mon intel. My old Pentium D 965 Extreme Edition hit 5GHz on air coolers and you need to resort to phase change cooling to hit it with this? I'll bet you AMD's new 32 core cpus can hit 6GHz+ with phase change cooling, considering they come with stock clocks at 3.4GHz...
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callmesissi - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
this is pentium IV tactics all over again!NikosD - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Intel does its very well known unethical tricks and scums again as nowadays this is what Intel knows best, BUT it is anandtech.com and all the other sites of technical/ technological content that they need to prove that they are decent and clear.Anandtech should right away correct its headlines regarding that "fake news" 28 core Intel's CPU 5.0GHz: Coming in Q4.
Because if it doesn't, the guys here and the other sites are part of the problem and certainly got paid for that headline.
Just my two cents.
Ryan Smith - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
The original article has in fact already been updated with this latest information, and a note pointing to this article.=)close - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
So smoke and mirrors accompanied by a (too) late update from their side that will garner in no way the same attention as the original "OMG 28corses and 5gigahetzes" articles that hit all mainstream tech media?In the light of such practices maybe it would make sense to cover all Intel future events with a few weeks of delay or by always highlighting that "we cannot confirm that Intel has indeed achieved this result or it's just another case of misdirection".
close - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
P.S. I don't know what's more upsetting. That Intel is still reduced to tricks in order to get media attention or that AT is so tame when approaching the subject of being lied to and tricked into advertising that lie."Intel Confirms Some Details about 28-Core 5 GHz Demonstration". The title feels more like a backrub than the slap they deserved. At least Tom's Hardware didn't feel like they need to extend any courtesy for such a lie.
sonny73n - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
@closeWell said.
goatfajitas - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
True... but meh. In the end when its all out, what will matter is performance verified by trusted 3rd party reviews on shipping retail product (not "hand picked" engineering samples). Depending on what you are looking for keys will be price per performance and performance per watt vs what AMD has out at the time. Anything prior to that is all hype.Tewt - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
@closeI agree. Disappointed with Anandtech's soft approach to this. Intel is gaining more than they are losing with this announcement when they DON'T deserve to.
close - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Guess they (tech journalists in general) are still in shock that Intel managed to make their collective experience redundant by managing to sell them a magic 28 core 5GHz CPU that somehow needs a mini-fridge to keep it cool and the most ghetto rig that ever made it such a presentation as a legit CPU.And none of them smelled a rat. Nobody suspected enough to at least point it out from the get go.
Either this or they don't dare challenge Intel on anything and just dance as they're told. Given the mild reaction I think it's both in AT's case.
And I'm not getting my hopes up, they'll fall for it every time as they've been doing for years ever since Anand (the guy who would have been able to actually spot the fake and call it) left.
Tams80 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
To be fair, most of the major YouTubers noticed something fishy and some are now giving Intel a few kicks.BurntMyBacon - Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - link
I'm pretty sure Ian is smart enough to spot the discrepancies here. More likely, he is extending professional courtesy (to a company that doesn't deserve it) in his handling of the situation. If this were a company that was not known for shenanigans, then handling it with a bit of delicacy would be considered appropriate.Oxford Guy - Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - link
So, you're saying it makes some kind of logical sense to react positively ("professional courtesy") to someone's cheating.Yeah. I'll buy that for a dollar.
lenghui - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
You hit the nail on the head.smilingcrow - Monday, June 11, 2018 - link
Did anyone here really think this would be released running all cores at that speed?The kind of people reading reports on tech sites would know this was heavily overclocked.
This is a storm in a tea cup.
Still a silly idea by Intel as it makes them look desperate which is hardly good PR.
Hul8 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Some people will still only read the title. Maybe add (O.C.) after the 5GHz?Hul8 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Or remove the 5 GHz from the title.Of course, having it there *is* more click-worthy/-baity.
Hul8 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
If the 5 GHz absolutely needs to stay, just adding the total power consumption (system+cooling) (in the style "@X.X kW") would go a long way to making the picture the title conveys complete.close - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
The title won't change. The author implies he was mislead by Intel in every regard but his reaction to finding the truth is the equivalent of giving Intel a footrub.This has to be one of the most embarrassing moments for the editors of AT in recent times. Showing that they can be tricked into tricking their readers and even when the gig is up al they can say is "thank you sir, can I have another sir".
Puts the impartiality of all their reviews in perspective. And I thought calling an Intel CPU "king of the hill" when everyone called it "too little to late" to be the "rock bottom; we can only go up from here" moment.
close - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
Plus the second they criticize Intel they start getting review samples a month late. Or not at all.So the lesson here? Never touch anything Intel until at least a month after it goes on sale and you can get some proper reviews from anyone who's willing to buy the product and make an honest assessment. Not from someone who will polish it just to get samples in the future.
Netmsm - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
You already know that most of people just read the headlines. So disenthrall Anandtech from inapt courtesy to the well known deceitful and correct the headlines.rocky12345 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
My take on all of this is that Intel just released the x299 platform 1 year ago if they can not make a CPU that will run on a 1 year old platform and not force people that want a new CPU for the platform to upgrade their 1 year old board then just do not do it at all. Heck AMD just released a 32/64 & 24/48 setup which will drop straight into the current x399 boards and run without to much issue but ideally they will run better on a new refreshed x399 main board. The point is AMD made a huge step forward with core count but at the same time did it so their current x399 customers can also enjoy the new CPU's without having to spend a huge amount of cash on a totally new setup like intel most likely is going to do here.Alexvrb - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
Not until after the diehard Intel fankids came out clucking about this setup like you could just order a chip off Newegg and slap it in any X299 board and BAM 5Ghz monster. I'd definitely have approached anything with a chiller attached to it with a little skepticism.Dragonstongue - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
well said o7NikosD - Saturday, June 9, 2018 - link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozcEel1rNKMmjz_5 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
I agree. Anandtech and Ian should be embarrassed.AphaEdge - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
What expect from a website, that carries those viral ads at the bottom of each article, with their click baity misleading headlines, and have ads to Chinese dating sites, that took me all of a few seconds to find out by Google are outright scams!!!Anandtech does not mind taking advertising revenue from people who deceive and steal, so why should they care about their article headlines.
close - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
It's a good way to filter out tech sites that present strong bias for any reason. Linus Tech Shits is another one of those guys who only presented the "awesome CPU" with absolutely no post-revelation rebuff or update because he relies on freebies sent by Intel.Devilsmurfau - Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - link
My original thought was " They've been trying for 20 years to crack 5Ghz in a production CPU.I'm surprised they managed to do it". So the admission it was overclocked was disappointing.However aren't people going A LITTLE overboard in all the 'cry foul' comments about Anandtech helping Intel lie to consumers and builders?
It's not like they actually put it on the market and told people this, people bought and then said: "Hey, you lied to us!". It was a marketing ploy, and no one actually lost anything.
To be clear, besides a sense of disappointment this wasn't as big a crime as it's being made out to be. Be thankful that it was such a small indiscretion because now you are all on guard for the next time you are told something by Intel and don't wait to have it confirmed.
To be fair though, hasn't Intel done this enough in the past for you all to have learnt this lesson by now?
Sunrise089 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
I understand you can only do so much here and you can’t say with certainty Intel is bs’ing you, but it should be obvious to all that the ‘going off script’ mistake just so happened to be perfectly positioned to steal the thunder of the AMD announcement to almost immediately follow. Funny how that worked.mkaibear - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
I disagree. All they've done is throw into relief the difference between the chips and allowed AMD to reference the phase change cooling in their briefing. If anything their obfuscation of the truth has helped AMD.(It's not like Intel didn't already have a 28-core CPU available and on the market, after all...)
Obviously the intention of the announcement was to take focus from AMD's launch, but the way they've done it suggests strongly to me it they ballsed-it-up - they would have achieved a much better result if they'd just told the truth!
close - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
The "obfuscation of truth" (the lying) hasn't help AMD. This was a marketing stunt and it worked. That particular day I got more articles about this in my news feed than AMD ever managed to garner, even when launching truly revolutionary parts.I can all but guarantee you this "obfuscation of truth" article will mostly fly under the radar. Especially since the title is so tame and the important part of the article is not there: "Intel misleadingly used an overclocked system with extreme cooling for their demo".
Yes, I'll call a "Hailea HC-1000B, which is a 1 HP water chiller good for 1500-4000 liters per hour and uses the R124 refrigerant to reduce the temperature of the water to 4 degrees Celsius. Technically this unit has a cooling power of 1770W" and multiple additional high power fans as extreme cooling.
mkaibear - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
It didn't work. My feed had way more articles about AMD's new threadrippers than it did about Intel, all of them referencing the 32 core TRs. Maybe you should read more widely.close - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
The same argument works both ways. In the meantime many other tech websites that decided do not crawl at Intel's feet and slam them for this admitted that it was done to steal AMD's thunder. Most of the comment agree. And I'm talking about big sites.GTRagnarok - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
The Intel 28 core vs. AMD 32 core showdown will be a good one.jabbadap - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Not much of show down on those. Different price segments, different user targets. Personally I would not go for TR2 24c or 32c chips, those are too much crippled by memory channels to be worth it(core count is not always everything). If there's a need for more cores then single socket Epyc and some EATX board for it.ydeer - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Look closely at the video on the "Paul’s Hardware" youtube-channel and you'll see the model name of the Gigabyte board printed near the PCI-e slots: "SKL-SP 1S"Gratin - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Sad to see another blunder from mainstream web sites. The trend of Wccftech is spreading.It seems nowadays you get better information from YouTube channels such as LTT, Paul’s Hardware, Gamers Nexus and others.
Yomama6776 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
agreedParalLOL - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Actual quote from WCCFTech:>We cannot confirm whether the overclock was on air cooling, liquid cooling or LN2 but it would be great if overclocking is indeed this great on the next Core-X parts.
They did not even need confirmation from Intel, it was freaking obvious.
Gratin - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Good to hear that they were skeptic too.I have dropped them following the plagiarism issue with Guru3D article and their way of recycling other web sites articles.
close - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Surprisingly wccftech actually looks like they're working to improve their reputation. While other sites are working to squander it away.ParalLOL - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Your headline was strictly misleading. There is no way Intel marks 28 core CPU with 5GHz, even i it's only boost clock. There is no 5GHz 28 core CPU coming in Q4, you lied, intentionally or not.eek2121 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
You must be part of Intel's PR team. You guys messed up. Hardcore. Even I, someone who has owned both Intel and AMD stocks throughout the years, dumped Intel when leaks of this first came out. Intel has basically lost their leadership in the x86/x86-64 market. They advertised to everyone that they had a 5 GHz 28 core system, when instead, they had a 28 core overclocked system that costs close to $300/mo to run in even the cheapest parts of the world. Meanwhile, AMD has a 24/32 core system that spanks the crap out of Intel's own 28 core "beast". Reminds me of Intel's 1.13 GHz recall all over again.mkaibear - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Quote from the original article;"Gregory Bryant (SVP and GM of Intel Client Computing Group) explicitly stated that it would be coming in Q4 this year"
ParalLOL - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
They showed 5 GHz system and said that 28 core part was coming in Q4. They never claimed that it will be shipped rated at 5 GHz.Targon - Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - link
That's the thing, how you market it makes a big difference. If a company claims to have gotten a product to a certain speed on liquid nitrogen, all web pages will talk about how it got there with liquid nitrogen, because that says the chip can't get there through conventional methods. The article on Anandtech was, "Intel’s 28-Core 5 GHz CPU: Coming in Q4". This says the chip is being marketed as a 5GHz CPU, not a 28 core CPU that they managed to clock to 5GHz with exotic cooling. It isn't a 5GHz CPU, it is a 3.4GHz CPU, or whatever the speed would be when it does launch.Anandtech has made a number of updates in the body of the article to clarify things, but the title of the article was never changed to be accurate. Intel does not have a 28 core 5GHz chip in the development pipeline, let alone shipping in the 4th quarter.
ParalLOL - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Compare how accurate and careful Anandtech usually is and how quick they were in jumping the hype train this time.realistz - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
There’s nothing wrong showing their own chip’s overclocking capability, which is the main target audience and not those bang-4-the-buck-gud-enuff shoppers. AMD had a chance to overclock theirs but they didn’t because Zen is terrible at it. Remember how AMD lied about Ryzen being an “overclockers dream.” Yeah AMD got humbled after that mess.Lord of the Bored - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
There's nothing wrong with showing off your overclocking capabilities, no. There IS something wrong with implying this is stock speeds and not an overclock that requires exotic cooling.dwade123 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
No one with a brain thought that was stock speed.Spunjji - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
No, but they sure as hell did their best to obscure just how not-stock this is (i.e. this is clearly not trivially achievable) and they asked the crowd if they want to be able to buy it. So yeah, deliberately misleading - a bait-and-switch at best.R0H1T - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
No one with half a brain would OC a 28 core monstrosity to 5GHz. If you want 5GHz, or more, then go with CFL & if you want more cores ~ well there's TR part deux. Why is anyone defending this PR stunt by Intel, seriously all of the press was misled & yet they get the blame!Luckz - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
The entire point of the demonstration was to mislead people who don't follow CPUs closely into thinking if AMD can do 24 or even 32 cores at something close to 4 GHz, Intel can do the same at 5. It's incredibly important to them to make people believe they have inherently superior hardware so that prospective buyers don't even do the value comparison with AMD. My girlfriend just told me yesterday that 'AMD are louder and need more power'. That's exactly the intended result.dwade123 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Waah AMD’s CPU can’t overclock well. Therefore, shame on intel for overclocking theirs. This is a HEDT CPU. Intel showcased what their audience wanted and that is its overclocking ability. If anyone only wanted a dumped down workstation processor they’ll get a Threadripper.Targon - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
The overclocking ability is maybe 4.7GHz at most, not 5GHz. If a typical closed loop liquid cooler or air cooling can't get a chip stable at a given speed, then it is not hitting that speed as an overclock. Even a "it only crashes once per hour" is not a valid stable overclock, even if you can run your benchmarks to completion.Basic concept, if Intel chips can be overclocked that easily, then why not just sell the chips at the higher clock speeds and leave it at that, instead of selling them in an underclocked form? It is because Intel wants the room to claim that each new generation chip is faster than the previous, even though they haven't really improved their chips all that much over the past six years!
FullmetalTitan - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
AMD chips overclock just fine, everyone likes to pretend the motherboard vendors having to catch up to a new architecture with firmware updates somehow permanently crippled Zen parts.The issue here is that the intel demo used a rig that is only accessible to hedge fund managers. No remotely mainstream consumer, and probably 99% of their HEDT market, could afford the components to build the absurd cooling loop they used, the highly custom motherboard (29VRM???) and the power bill associated with operating this rig. It was incredibly dishonest to market it as a part that could OC like this, when it can only do so with many thousands of dollars of supporting equipment and dozens of hours of tuning.
Targon - Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - link
There is also something that many have missed, and that is that the motherboard itself had four 8-pin power connectors on it to provide the power to the socket needed. No motherboard that will ever be sold for the shipping Intel 28 core chip will provide that. Even if someone was willing to get a chiller to match the cooling of this Intel demo, no one will be able to buy a motherboard to allow it to happen.This would be like a single video card with six 8-pin power connectors on it for a demo. At no time would any company ship a video card with that many 8-pin power connectors on it, so a demo that shows a super-cooled video card running at very high speeds would also be something that no amount of cooling would make a consumer be able to hit those speeds.
The fact that articles were talking about the Intel 28-core 5GHz chip, which it is not, just shows how much of an intended deception the whole thing is.
sonichedgehog360@yahoo.com - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Then we have hundreds of thousands of brainless people on Reddit, Twitter, and Facebook...close - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
@Ian and @Ryan. And if they thought otherwise they didn't bother to tell us, the unwashed masses.As it stands AT is either a mouthpiece for Intel or a collection of newbie journalists believing everything they're told.
voicequal - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
The fact that Intel would borrow from their top Xeon design for an overclockable enthusiast part is significant news. There is still a lot we don't know, but that's not unusual for trade show announcements for forward leaning products.close - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
Except even random amateur readers could tell something's fishy about the presentation: https://www.reddit.com/r/AMD_Stock/comments/8op47x...Not Ryan and Ian though. Their title still says "Intel’s 28-Core 5 GHz CPU: Coming in Q4". No update there. Because they're too professional to change an obviously misleading title. That would upset Int... err... I mean they "care too much".
Even the pictures AT (Ian himself?) took clearly said the CPU is a 2.7GHz one but Ian still insisted that "5.0 GHz all-core frequency is a big step".
https://images.anandtech.com/doci/12893/image591.j...
How's that for embarrassing amateur hour?
ParalLOL - Monday, June 18, 2018 - link
Nobody watching AdoredTV videos thought that. If you actually pay attention to the resentation you will see how Intel brags about having maximal all-core performance.mkaibear - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Yeah but why not be honest about it? The problem doesn't appear to be that it was overclocked it's that Intel have been so cagey and coy about things like power consumption and cooling.Tamz_msc - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Nowhere during the promotionals was Ryzen touted to be an overclocker's dream. Get the eff out of here, you low effort degenerate troll.Demigod79 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
You could not be more wrong if your name was Wrong Wrongly Wrong.1) Your statement would only be true if the target audience cools their system with an industrial-strength water chiller - in other words, nobody.
2) If the goal of the demonstration was to show the overclockability of their 28-core chip then they failed badly, since a chip that requires such exotic cooling is not a good overclocker.
3) HEDT customers, the target audience, generally don't care about overclockability - they care about stability and performance (at stock) more than anything else. It is usually gamers with quad/hex-cores who do care about extreme overclocking, not those with 16+ core chips.
Targon - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
You can't even say that that Intel chip can be overclocked through normal means to 5GHz. That isn't overclocking capability in the way that those who use liquid nitrogen to cool chips can say that they run their machines at those speeds 24x7.Overclocking capability means just that, what speeds can you overclock to with NORMAL cooling methods, and I would even include closed loop coolers like a Corsair H110i at this point, since these things are not unusual in this day and age.
If Intel is not going to be selling their chips with these speeds as realistic targets for EVERYONE to be able to hit, then it doesn't deserve big headlines. This includes liquid nitrogen, but when high speeds are hit on liquid nitrogen, it gets mentioned very clearly, meaning, normal people will not be seeing those speeds.
Targon - Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - link
What motherboard and chipset will the 28 core Intel chip require when it gets launched? How much power will it consume with a normal release version? AMD demos chips with a normal motherboard, and even if they were to show an overclock, it wouldn't be with a specially created motherboard that can pump more voltage to the chip than what even the highest end motherboard will provide at launch.If AMD can get their 28-32 core chips to run at the same 3.4GHz that Intel 28 core chips are currently running at with Xeon, that isn't even the case of AMD being behind. If Intel can release faster chips to stay ahead of AMD, at this point, Intel will do that.
Intel is running out of room to improve clock speeds without a true improvement to the Core architecture, so all Intel is doing is boosting clock speeds closer to the true maximum speed. Four generations ago, Intel had chips that could be clocked to 5GHz, but never bothered to release them at that speed, so they released them at slower speeds. With each generation, they just set the speed a bit higher, without the need to really improve the chip. We saw that Intel is close to the limit because the i7-7700k had problems with thermal throttling, to the point where complaints were met with a, "you should not overclock the chip" due to temperature issues.
Intel may have improved things a bit, or using something better than "toothpaste" for a TIM might allow them to get a bit more room to increase the official speeds for another generation or two, but that is about it. Intel is stuck, they got into the habit of just improving their fab process to allow for higher clock speeds, without doing significant design improvements that would allow for higher clock speeds.
AMD really didn't do too bad for the first generation, 3.2-3.6GHz base with an overclock to 4.0. Second generation has gotten as high as 4.3GHz, though 4.1-4.2GHz is more common(outside of the 2700X which has a 105watt TDP). The fact that every chip is unlocked, allowing people to overclock to the potential of the chip, compared to a very limited number of unlocked chips on the Intel side, and AMD even releasing software to allow consumers to overclock via software, something Intel does NOT provide, is probably where you got confused about "an overclockers dream" being a comment made.
Ryzen 3rd generation in 2019, with Zen 2 cores and a 7nm fab process is the chip that will probably get Ryzen to the point where you can clock it to 5GHz on air on all eight cores. Since Intel can barely get to 5.2GHz, if Ryzen 3rd generation can hit 5.0GHz, any advantage Intel had will be gone. Also, what sort of speeds will we see from Intel chips that don't have Meltdown vulnerabilities?
Lord of the Bored - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
" it does mean that the base TDP for a ‘retail’ processor will be much lower" because no one wants to ship a >1 kilowatt water cooler as the pack-in heatsink.Kidster3001 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Anyone who buys one of these already expects to pay $1000 for the cooler as well. This thing won't be aimed at the masses. I'm excited. Been wanting a 250 W chip for a long timeeek2121 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
You will be able to get one, from AMD, next quarter. Also, it won't require a 1kw cooler to score those cinebench scores...and it'll cost significantly less than the intel offering.dwade123 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
It also won’t overclock or perform as well.FullmetalTitan - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
My Honda won't drive 250mph but it gets me to work and pays the bills.That is what HEDT customers are actually after. Dependability and consistency, not land speed records.
close - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Neither will this one. It was cherry picked by the manufacturer, you can expect it was the best piece of silicon off the assembly line. So expect your's to go some 100s of MHz lower for the same power.And that cooling requirement makes it absolutely useless to anyone not looking to brag about a benchmark.
Nice shilling though. Everybody already agreed this was a publicity stunt, you're the last to get the news that you won't actually be getting this the way you imagine it.
Targon - Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - link
If the motherboard design won't be copied(four 8-pin power connectors on the motherboard itself), then it isn't just a cherry picked CPU, it is a motherboard that was built just for this demo to be able to deliver enough power to the CPU socket.I am sure that AMD, even with Ryzen and Threadripper being fairly young designs, could figure out how to get to 5GHz if they came up with a special socket and motherboard as well as custom cooling. It might require a lot of extra power as well, and cooling, but it wouldn't be realistic. They could probably release a single core chip that runs at 7GHz at this point if they saw a value or a reason to do it, but the overall industry knows that dual-core is garbage in real-world situations, quad-core is the real minimum that people would want, and 6-8 cores is the sweet spot for the consumer space.
piroroadkill - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
250W? Hahaha, not at 5GHz.... 4 times that, most likely...Spunjji - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
That you're being so casual about this indicates that you're most likely talking complete and utter nonsense. Since when does anyone "expect" to pay $1000 for a cooler? Since nowhere is the answer seeing as $1000 off-the-shelf solutions aren't really a thing and no stock CPU ever released has needed anything like that.Wilco1 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Without a $1000 cooler you wouldn't get anywhere near 5GHz and there wouldn't be any point in paying the likely high premium for the CPU.JoeWright - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
No they don't. And less so if there's a better alternative from amd.Funny how when it comes to intel, price/price-perf/stability/optimisation etc. doesn't matter. Only the shiny "5ghz" matters.
But when it comes to amd it's all "bulldozers" and "vega1000watts".
Intel should focus more on r&d and less on pr/theft/blackmail.
jabber - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Your parents might have a say when the power bill arrives.mkaibear - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
I dunno, render your video, edit some photos, play fallout 76, heat your house at the same time... Sounds like a master plan of efficiency to me...mkaibear - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
So, this was an epic balls-up by Intel on all accounts.Dunno who thought it would be a good idea to try to obfuscate the chiller and overclocked nature but they should be beaten with a sack full of Prescott heatsinks for even suggesting it.
I mean really.
If Intel had come out and said "look at what our CPUs can do under extreme cooling conditions - 28 cores at 5GHz", the tech world would have gone "wow, that's impractical but cool" (apart from the AMD fanboys who would have thrown popcorn as usual)
Instead they've created a whole poonami of criticism because it looks like they've tried to hide what they've done and claim things they haven't.
What a bunch of idiots!
Manch - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
<quote>... they should be beaten with a sack full of Prescott heatsinks for even suggesting it.</quote>THIS^^^
Ket_MANIAC - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Oh my god, that Prescott heatsink comment was beautiful.eastcoast_pete - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
+1 , especially on the Prescott heatsink spanking. Instead of engaging in a downright Eagerly awaiting the video of that on youtube.This juvenile "my chip runs at higher GHz than yours" vs. AMD, show some real life upsides. One of them is the ability to run AVX-512 extensions, which results in a huge speed-up of those applications that make use of it. Of course, that wouldn't have been at anywhere near 5 GHz (esp. not on all 28 cores), but would have given Intel something meaningful to crow about.
dynamis31 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Reaction of panicked guys.Read this : https://www.forbes.com/sites/tiriasresearch/2018/0...
It explains quite perfectly why they're acting with such confusion. They were not prepared to zen and AMD execution, may be too focused on nVidia and Arm threats. If Global Foundries accelerates and is able to increase 7 nm production, they will loose huge market share in the coming years, in all CPU fields.
Atari2600 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Ryan/Ian et al,You guys need to become much more cynical and write the stories as such.
If a couple of hours earlier Intel made a big deal about releasing the 8086 that could turbo to 5GHz on one core, how on earth could you conclude that a 28 core machine running 5 GHz on all cores could be anything but a PR stunt?!?
Headline should have been along the lines of: "Intel shows 5GHz on 28 cores - likely a cynical PR stunt"
Sub headings should have been:
"- no details forthcoming"
"- box shrouded in darkness"
"- water pipes coming from box"
"- cooling system unknown"
"- coincidence that AMD are likely to be talking about Threadripper 2 tomorrow?"
Then if Intel have a problem with it - they'll have to back up their argument with facts, figures and details.
As it is, they've played you (along with most of the rest of the tech press) unfortunately.
sonny73n - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
It would be awesome if AT always tell it like it is. But hey, it’s today journalism at its finest - telling what their sponsors told them to.Ryan Smith - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
"telling what their sponsors told them to. "I have to admit, these statements irk me. It puts me into a position where I have to prove a negative. That no one - not our publisher, not Intel, not Darth Vader himself - told us what to write.
Everything in this article is Ian's take on the matter as a professional journalists. I have no idea whose ads are running on this article, nor do I care. That is our advertising department's concern, and the departments are compartmentalized specifically for the reasons of editorial integrity. We don't even accept sponsored travel (i.e. every last bit is paid out of our own pockets) so that we can maintain this integrity. That's how important it is to us.
So to insinuate or imply that this article is dishonest and that Ian is writing what he is being told to write is disrespectful to him and all the effort he's put into this and other articles chasing down the facts.
Frankly if we wanted to just write things for other people, we could go get PR jobs and get paid twice as much to do half the work.
RealBeast - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Ryan, the whiners will whine.Your articles were fine and you undated them as events unfolded. AT remains a go to site for tech news.
Any complaints should really be aimed solely at Intel for their deception, intended or not (I lean towards intended but perhaps the pressure from above pushed some marketing folks beyond ethical boundaries). Seems to me that it all ended blowing up in Intel's face and just highlights how well AMD is doing in the HEDT arena.
Morbius007 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
I think its important to look at this from all sides, Intel clearly had a goal with this demonstration, and by all accounts they accomplished what they intended to on day one.However, playing games with the truth will always have consequences, in this case, intel has'nt just played in a grey area, they outright lied about what they were going to offer as a real product.
This CPU as it was demonstrated will never be offered as a system. They promoted it as such and that is deception plain and simple.
The media outlets that promoted this at face value should be doing CLEAR and DIRECT clarifications about what it really was.
While I understand that nobody wants to bite the hands that feed them, calling this BS out is no less than critical to maintain any level credibility with the readers that know better.
I use both AMD and Intel products, none of BS marketing materials that get put out influence my choices, I actually test and build systems myself to make those determinations.
The last system I built that was an Intel was a 6800k based system, I do not find the kind of value that my customers need in the current crop of Intel CPU's. I "almost" got duped into buying into the latest X299 platform, but when I saw Intel's BS PCI-e Lane game I stopped and waited to see what the rest of the market was going to do.
It became amazingly clear to me where the market was heading when suddenly the previous platform, the X99 mainboards and CPUs became VERY scarce in the used market. Mainstream
Server hardware i.e. the E5-2620 V4 CPU's became hard to find and the prices jumped.
Folks simply avoided the new Intel Platform because it was clear that intel was resorting to tricks and was punishing power users by forcing them to buy $1000.00 or higher CPU's with the new platform to see the same PCI-e benefits that we used to get across the board.
Intel tried to play the public, the buying public didn't bite, AMD came back to the table with a new platform with Ryzen and Threadripper/Epyc, it wasn't 100% mature but it had real potential. Intel will now pay for its lack of vision and its clear efforts to take advantage of no real competition for the last 3-5 years. Intel was at a Crossroads, they took the low road and are now on that road alone.
This latest "demo" was simply a desperate attempt to remain relevant in a market they are now behind in.
The fact that they are having REAL issues with their 10nm process is an indication that they sat and waited too long. Why spend research dollars on new and better tech when nobody is pushing them to do so? Because eventually, even after 5-7 years of no challenge, things change, they always do.
With Ryzen, and Threadripper/Epyc 2 the other shoe just dropped and Intel is now standing there flat footed and is throwing anything and everything they can at AMD to stop the bleeding.
Last year I invested in a Threadripper desktop, it wasnt perfect but its been running stable now for 9 months, I have every reason to believe that the new TR2 Part with 32 Cores will be able to drop into my existing board with minor firmware updates.
My X99 Platform while old, is stable and still able to do what I need to with it. Intel has offered ZERO compelling products to replace it. All of the new gear they have is 35-40% more expensive with what appears to be a dead end platform in X299. While AMD is extending their Thier new platform and offering new motherboard refreshes. You can buy a new board, but its not yet required for you to enjoy the new CPU's, not yet at least.
Intel, you are going to have to earn your money again, stop pissing in the wind and making yourselves look foolish, time to eat your plate of humble pie and go back to work.
Just like AMD, you too can succeed, but don't expect us to throw money at you because of years past achievements , what have you done for us lately? What folks will remember is you promoted something that doesn't exist and we cannot buy, doesn't sound like a winning solution. You might have stolen a few headlines, but it wont matter when TR2 is on the shelves and nobody is looking to buy your non existing tech.
edzieba - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
"This CPU as it was demonstrated will never be offered as a system"Why not? It's already an ultra-premium single-purpose small volume platform (taking an already ultra-premium top-bin Xeon die, then putting it on a platform that makes it completely unsuitable for existing customers who would be considering the Xeon 8180), using custom-built motherboards with excessive VRMs. There is no reason it would not be sold exclusively as a pre-assembled pre-overclocked system rather than as pretend-to-be-discrete components that only assemble into one platform anyway.
Targon - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
It is simple, if you are looking for additional CPU cores, it would make more sense to go with an Epyc or Threadripper setup. High clock rates for these types of systems will help, but if you are paying $10,000 for a chip, plus the additional parts, it makes far more sense to go with two $2000 chips that will get you the same level of performance for what you are doing.No one is going to spend $1000 for the chiller just to cool a chip to get the same results as this demonstration. They will go for normal cooling, which means lower clock speeds than those demonstrated by Intel in this scam of a PR stunt.
So, the chip...yea, it will go into systems, but at what speeds? If they are going to have problems at 4.4GHz and Threadripper 2 32 core will hit 4.2GHz, is this Intel chip a better choice?
edzieba - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
By that logic, nobody is going to buy an Epyc for a mere 32 cores when they could get a GV100 with 5120 CUDA cores.Core count is meaningles without knowing how threaded a workload is, and how sensitive that workload is to single-core performance, and how sensitive it is to being split across NUMA domains (i.e. can it be clustered). There are very few workloads that are moderately threaded but need all the single-core perf they can get, but they do exist, e.g. HFT. And those workloads will pay out the nose for hardware that can do what they need.
eva02langley - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
I usually back you guys, but you screw up on this one big time. Intel magicians shown you magic tricks and you were so impressed that any of your objectivity disappeared.Objectivity can do just so much if you are getting used and you cannot acknowledge it. Basically, Intel used you to strike the momentum from AMD... and it did work... until the truth got out.
Death666Angel - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
How did anyone read these articles and not notice over all the baffled comments by AT? I didn't come away reading it thinking "this thing will be magic, run at reasonable power consumption and kil off any AMD Epyc stuff". I thought "this thing will cost more than a fighter jet and be out of reach of anyone but the 1 ‰ of the 1 ‰". Every pore of the article sounded of scepticism with a tinge of "if they pull this off, it'll be incredible", with all the references to 600W+ CPUs and the like.StrangerGuy - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Because people now has the attention span of a ADHD flea and the need to be outraged for the sake of outrage, thanks to all the 24/7 constant drama in their lives on social media.eva02langley - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
Well, first off, the problem is because AT did promote the news without much analysis... which should not have happened.Look at the number of sites who did report the story. It was an intentional PR scheme and AT let it slipped.
The story should have been: Intel is showing a 28-cores CPU running at 5 GHz under a cloud of ethical concerns.
sonny73n - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
With first glance at this article I thought “hmm Intel has answered AMD with one of 28-cores 5GHz” but anyone with some knowledge of computer tech and critical thinking would soon realize that it’s impossible for Intel to achieve this claim without massive OC’ing and cooling.I’m sure Anandtech will verify Intel’s claim and update this article or have a new one on its own. But now this article only has unverified/vague info about Intel’s claim right before AMD’s big event which can only cause somewhat damage to AMD. It also takes out some of AMD’s momentum. I think Anandtech team would surely notice this but you guys went ahead anyway.
This article only serves Intel’s objective imho.
Dragonstongue - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Sir this is VERY refreshing to hear.Far too often we as people have to question morales and ethics in our everyday life from political parties, governments, corporations, media etc.
It is nice when some review sites are NOT this way (you here at Anandtech and the folks over at [H}ard ocp, and as far as I can tell also at Gamers Nexus)
Keep up the good work ^.^
Atari2600 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Agreed on that - it's insulting to say you folks didn't write what YOU wanted to write.Problem I have is - if you keep falling for this crap - then they'll keep spooning it out every time they are in a tight spot. I hope in future you will bear Intel's behaviour here in mind next time you are left wondering whether to give them the benefit of the doubt or not.
rahvin - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Ryan I think you should take the criticism to heart that you are taking these companies at their word far to easily. Though you should ignore the whole conspiracy issue for what it is, a conspiracy theory.There were too many things that screamed this was a setup that didn't even get mentioned. The first commenters on the article mentioned that the pictures showed what appeared to be an extreme overclocking with insulated water lines and massive VRM heatsink.
Both AMD and Intel have shown time and again that you can't take them at their word all the time. I'm not saying believe them outright, but you should be skeptical of anything they present where they are obviously concealing details. This whole presentation was stinky, and it was apparent that along with Intel's evasiveness it should have been taken very skeptically. Instead Anandtech did what every other tech publication did and presenting a glowing picture, then corrected it later when the public through comments showed the problems that were completely missed by the publisher.
close - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
@Ryan so as a reader am I to believe that you couldn't tell the difference between what's realistically achievable with current CPU tech and some pony show put up by Intel?And when you did realize you were obviously lied to and manipulated into lying to your readers you chose to be so very delicate towards Intel and almost find excuses for them because "you care too much"?
The reader should be your priority. And as you can see so many readers are disappointed in the way you're approaching this, in the fact that you're obviously soft on Intel and it certainly looks like you're NOT impartial. A comment is not the way to address that.
But I guess you don't want to adress that. Someone will be upset either way and you'd rather it be the readers. ;)
Targon - Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - link
To be fair, when there is a generational jump, moving to 10nm for instance, it MIGHT be possible to see a big jump in terms of clock speeds. 10nm is something that Intel has been working on for a LONG time, and it is sometimes possible that there will be a big announcement that makes things interesting.Ryzen had a lot of people assuming that AMD was making a lot of noise about another CPU that wouldn't be able to compete last year, and here we are today talking about Intel trying to compete with what AMD has been able to release and not the other way around.
azanimefan - Saturday, June 9, 2018 - link
Ryan,I am currently not in journalism, but I did minor in journalism. The first rule of GOOD journalism is to DOUBT EVERYTHING, I learned that in JOUR 205 – Reporting the News. I am sure Ian thought what he was writing was true in the original article, and the contents of the article likely weren't influenced by a major advertiser on your site. The problem is most of the knowledgeable tech journalists were highly skeptical of Intel's claims BEFORE news broke about the water chiller ($600-$1000 unit), the custom made - non consumer ready 28 phase LGA 3647 tech demo motherboard (28 phase? can you imagine how much that might run) using a non-standard (actually not even consumer available) VRM cooling solution; most the the non-credulous press were doing the basic math and coming up with possible power draws for the chip in the +1000 W range (the best numbers I saw put it around 1300W) and wondering how this could be possible when Intel couldn't even get a 6 core cpu to launch at 5ghz stock.
Why didn't Ian ask these questions like the good reporters did? I can answer that. He either a) doesn't know squat about what he's reporting (possible), OR he doesn't know how to be non-credulous, OR he let his personal biases prevent him from asking the hard questions. Either way this is horrible journalism. We have a journalist who
1. doesn't know the subject he's writing about
2. doesn't know how to not be credulous
3. allows his personal preferences and biases to influence his reporting to such an extent he forgets everything he knows about computers in order to masquerade as a propagandist for favored companies.
Whichever of the 3 reasons for his first click bait style article; he displayed shockingly poor journalistic skills. The fact that you (his editor?) are defending your journalist does make you a good boss. Unfortunately it also makes you a bad editor. With you at the helm I highly suspect articles as intentionally or unintentionally dishonest as the former one, regularly get published with little to no criticism from you or the editing staff. Furthermore, instead of apologizing for the embarrassingly misleading and polite fluff pieces for Intel we're getting here from Ian, or being angry that someone in the industry effectively pulled a wizard of oz on your credulous butts, you're angry at your readers for getting mad at being mislead by a site they used to trust.
Wrong direction to direct your ire, Ryan. You should be mad at Ian for even allowing your readers to suspect his journalism was bought and paid for. Not mad at the readers for suspecting the reasons behind this shoddy journalism. You want to know why people don't trust the tech press? Its because members of the tech press HAVE taken bribes and caved to threats for good reviews. It happens in the tech press depressingly a lot. This used to be a pretty good source of trustworthy news. After seeing your post, and Ian's "correction" to that nearly propaganda puff piece he wrote, I'm sadly going to have to toss this site in with the rest of the dubious trash out there.
close - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
Ryan insists that "That no one told us what to write." Yet he is not willing to shed any light on why they (Anandtech) are the *ONLY* major tech site to fall for Intel's deception without a hint of cynicism or skepticism, and then not publish a scathing update.No, they wholeheartedly embraced Intel's story when it broke and could only come back with "Intel could have done this better" update after the revelation that the whole audience were taken for fools.
So absent any "sponsorship", what prevented you from spotting the deception or from justifiably and openly criticizing Intel for this? "Skill"? "Spine"?
And please don't say you "care too much" again. Other journalists that care a lot still managed to be skeptical of the original details and then point out in the update that Intel purposely mislead everyone.
So, skill, spine, or sponsorship?
eva02langley - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
Hey, you are going too far. Ian was THE GUY putting the whole Ryzen Fall and CTS-Labs story for what it was. AT was at the fore front there and they did an incredible job.Here, they just didn't put enough criticism in place and took Intel words a little too trustworthy. Intel DID present a 28 cores CPU running at 5GHz, however it was their deceiving intent that was of Ethical concern. They sold the story like it was a new product that anybody could purchase. They even got the guts to promote it as a HEDT product. All this was intentional and aimed at TR 32 cores. They used the press to sabotage the momentum and it did succeed.
All in all, I bet that Intel knew what they were doing and they decided to go this way and prepare the apologize story way ahead. For them, it was worth it on the short term, but I think they underestimate social media power now a day. Not even an Intel supporter can abide by something like this.
close - Monday, June 11, 2018 - link
I gave both of them the benefit of the doubt and asked to let those silly readers of theirs know:* why the title of the original article hasn't changed although it's a lie for all intents and purposes;
* why the "reveal" article is so incredibly soft that it's basically trying to put out the fire for Intel;
* why did they put 5GHz in the title when the picture they took with their own hands showed 2.7GHz base clock;
* why is there so much disparity between AnandTech reaction and every other tech outlet out there, including the reputable ones.
Did you see any answers? Maybe Ryan and Ian write for themselves and the readers are an afterthought. Or do you consider saying "we're to professional to reply publicly" (after being lied and embarrassed publicly) and that "we care too much" as an answer? How is any of this preventing them from having a proper response only they know.
And you have a very shaky understanding of what "Intel launches 28 core 5GHz CPU in Q4" means. Just suggesting that a journalist should be allowed to play with semantics like this disqualifies you from any conversation regarding ethics and professionalism. They mislead the reader and the admission and subsequent write-ups were done in a very hamfisted manner.
So no, I am definitely NOT going too far. Whatever comes now for AT is too little too late.
u.of.ipod - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
I would love if Anandtech could spend 1 more minute of effort to not make the watermarked photos look terrible.Ryan Smith - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Most of these photos are taken on the fly; we're rarely given opportunities to take our time and properly stage a photo.Still, is there something specific about the watermarked photos that you don't like?
SaturnusDK - Saturday, June 9, 2018 - link
How about the image of the chiller specs where it says loud and clear it uses the internationally banned R22 ozone depleting gas? And even sports the fake CE "China Export" mark?Gunbuster - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
So with a GTX 1080 TI you would be talking 2000+ watts on that demo system? Along with what another 2000 watts on an AC unit to keep your office from melting down from all the heat the chiller is pumping out... Maybe winter only gaming rigs can become a thing.eva02langley - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
They created a custom motherboard to make the CPU stable at 5GHz. There is no way something like that would ever a real use case. Nowaday, the real calculation is coming from GPUs.Da W - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
It was all to keep Intel fonboyz wet and drippin before AMD's 32 core launch.Did work!
watzupken - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
I guess the only people that will buy this setup is either out of their mind or simply getting it for an expensive overclocking hobby. Firstly, looking at the Intel likes to milk their customer, this is surely not going to be cheap, not to mention you still need a 2000W "fridge" to cool it, and one motherboard that seems to be struggling to handle the power requirements. Secondly, the supposed efficiency that they claim so much is out of the window with a setup that easily matches the fridge that you need to switch on to keep it cool. Then we need to consider the size of both the gigantic casing to house the gigantic components, along with the "fridge" that is about the same size as the casing.If there is a point to prove here, I think it only proves that this is a poorly thought through demo and Intel is really desperate. They are a victim to their own success by sitting on it thinking that all will be fine. Now with their fab advantage gone, and the likes of AMD and ARM closing in on every segment of their core business, they really need to buck up.
Targon - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
I want to see someone at Asus take the same chiller used in this Intel demo and see what Threadripper 2 can be run at. I would laugh if using the same cooling allowed a 32 core Threadripper 2 to hit 5GHz as well(doubtful, but you get the point).SaturnusDK - Saturday, June 9, 2018 - link
The chiller Intel used uses the internationally banned R22 ozone depleting gas as refrigerant (see image in article above) so no, no one should use this chiller ever. Not Intel, not anyone.close - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
They could have had a galley of hungry children rowing to keep the CPU cool and nobody from AT would have pointed that out.Although to be honest legally they are still allowed to use it even after 2020 when the US should reduce the usage by 99.5% below the baseline. So this would definitely cover the usage for 1 Intel parlor trick.
Nice catch though.
Chad - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
I would think AT staff would be a little more upset at Intel for making them a part of their deception. Clearly, they did it on purpose, as you cite in this article yourself, there's just too much circumstantial evidence that proves it was. I know I would be quite upset for being made to be a part of such shenanigans if it were my readers. I know you have to play both sides here, you're loyal readers and a powerhouse such as Intel, but it would be nice to see you drag them over the coals a bit harder, imo.Ryan Smith - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
"I would think AT staff would be a little more upset at Intel for making them a part of their deception"Oh, we are. But it would not be professional to hash that out in the public eye.
close - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
You being deceived and then deceiving the readers happened in the public eye.Telling it as it is isn't unprofessional. Dancing around it with a speech that might as well come from a politician or a PR team certainly is. And you don't have to be insulting or vengeful about this.
A good journalist does only have manners, he also has a backbone and doesn't take being lied to so easily...
nfriedly - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
But what does "overclocked" mean in the context of a one-off demo with non-production hardware?Targon - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
overclocked means nothing if you need to spend more money on the cooler than it would cost to buy a competing chip from the competition just to stay ahead.Gratin - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
https://youtu.be/ozcEel1rNKMAt least you get a good laugh from that "revelation".
flgt - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
What's with all the hate on AT. I thought there was sufficient information even in the early articles to draw the correct conclusion. People need to chill out.alpha754293 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Why can't people just look at this as a demonstration of the platform capability/prototype?Yes, the information could have been better communicated, but as it is pointed out, that's also largely because of how INTEL disseminated their information (poorly).
To that point, I agree with Ian in that if Intel had been more transparent about HOW they accomplished this, this would have been a "much better sell" about the platform capability rather than having to try and hide what they did in order to be able to accomplish this.
And also again, if this was to be sold at $10k a pop, that would be cheap. 28 cores, all running at 5 GHz would yield a combined total of 140 GHz.
There's a LOT that I can do with that.
5 GHz also appears to be the next "holy grail" for stock speeds, especially for even enterprise customers that DON'T want to go to IBM POWER8 (which comes at a SUBSTANTIAL premium).
SaturnusDK - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Not sure if anyone else has commented this yet but Intel did something much worse than just "forgetting" to mention the overclock in the demo.They used a Hailea HC1000B water chillers which uses the internationally banned R22 HCFC gas as refrigerant.
I hope Ian sees this (or if other people mentioned it) and ask some poignant questions to Intel about their commitment to preserving the ozone layer and the environment of our planet in general.
Tkan215215 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
I wasnt surprised and wont sell my kidney for overpriced 28 coreswow&wow - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
Another Guinness World Record, the heaviest and largest PC powered by Intel CPU with a 68-lb water chiller!What a funny and silly demo crying for attention like a kid, but requiring OS kernel relocation is the intended design, so anything from Intel is a norm!
ruthan - Saturday, June 9, 2018 - link
True is that unless AT will be fully financed by readers and will by review samples.. It will be not objective.. AT in was always too Intel, Apple friendly because they too big to tell the true you them..jphoto801 - Friday, June 8, 2018 - link
It's been at least a year since I even have looked at this used-to-be-great website, and I return just in time for this cringefest. Jimmy Fallon does harder-hitting interviews.BambiBoom - Saturday, June 9, 2018 - link
Ananderators,Anyone looking critically at the photos originally released of the 28C@5GHz system should recognize that they're looking at a trade show demonstration of an engineering sample processor on a prototype proprietary motherboard, cooled by a custom liquid system connected by large pipes that run to an external unit underneath on a cart. How is this deceptive or misleading- a "scam"?
The announcement was that a 28-core CPU ran all cores at 5GHz. It did that. When a competitive overclocker runs an i7-7700K at 8.5GHz for .262 seconds, with two cores and hyperthreading disabled, and there is a photo of a cobbled-together tray of liquid Nitrogen sitting on the CPU, is that a trick, "fake news"?
Anyway, while this is an note-worthy achievement, is it anymore than a curiosity to the average gamer or workstation user? Look at the specifications for the nearest Intel offering , the Xeon Platinum 8180:
https://ark.intel.com/products/120496/Intel-Xeon-P...
> and scroll down to the line reading, " Recommended Customer Price $10009.00 - $10015.00 "
Quite funny to see there a $6 range on a $10,000 price. Watch for the spectacular one-day-only Black Friday sale at $9,999.99!
This was of course a clickbait demonstration at a trade show, but not deceptive and not a plot to trick WoW fans to impulsively slam a $10,000- or will it be $12,000? CPU on their credit card and then sit next to the post box panting for delivery.
The current core mania surprises me anyway. There are few applications multi-threaded efficiently beyond 5-6 cores. My next CPU will be an 8-core @ 5GHz - not 28-core. And I could do that tomorrow.
I daily, chant my mantra: "single thread, single thread, single thread."
BambiBoom
(Xeon E5-1680 v2 8C@4.3Ghz)
close - Saturday, June 9, 2018 - link
It's a scam because Intel hid all of those details from the audience (as much as they could). Intel did their best to suggest that it's a "standard" CPU that will be launched as a 28 core, 5GHz part later this year and then did absolutely nothing to correct the "misunderstanding". This is the textbook definition of a scam dear commenter that registered on Anandtech just to post this ;).But the main issue here isn't that Intel did it since it should be expected (as already proven) that Intel will stop at nothing to discredit and sabotage their competition, by illegal or immoral means. The problem is that both Ryan Smith and Ian Cutress of Anandtech took the bait, reported false information on the website, and when they discovered the deception instead of nailing Intel to the cross they played it down and all but defended Intel in this article because they "care too much" and they are "professionals".
This makes the Editor in Chief and the Senior Editor for AT look unprofessional, inexperienced, gullible, or biased (by any means). Or a combination of the above. There is no other explanation why a person in this position would allow himself to be so easily tricked and then to react so softly that it's embarrassing to look at.
BambiBoom - Saturday, June 9, 2018 - link
close,I'm fully prepared to admit I've missed some important details and agree with several of your comments. On the other hand, I make a lot of judgements based on what I see, rather than the commercial wordfeed. In this example, the photos all screamed Intel panic- thanks muchly AMD! and a public demonstration of a kind of cobbled together demonstration that was obviously very far - make that very, very far- from being a product.
The things that editors write are always from a particular angle and I think in the case of shows such CES and Computex, the idea is high purity hype to stimulate attention. Who was that said, "ALL publicity is good?"
Further, even if it is inching towards release, it would be a $12,000 processor that required a very expensive chassis and cooling. With a couple of TB of RAM-t he several Teslas- and many, many TB of Drives-at least 100K.
What I'm hoping to see at Comptex is the i7-9700K 8-core that is said to be very easily persuaded to run on all cores at 5.0, and I'm praying to Zortog the Semi-Magnificent it has at least 24 PCIe lanes.
AMD has obviously woken up Intel and whatever form that takes, that's good for both of them and all of us.
BambiBoom
close - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
Intel's product is irrelevant to my point. It's obvious now for everyone that they have nothing, at least not yet. And what they do have will be obscenely expensive.No, my point was that a couple of senior editors with years and years of experience between them fell for this. Again! They misinformed all of their readers right there on the front page of Anandtech. And then took it lying down because Intel.
And when they did wake up and smelled the rat they wrote an article that reads more like apologizing on behalf of Intel. The whole article can be summarized by "Intel could have done this better". They should have crucified Intel for the deception but instead of that they chose to protect Intel because "they care too much" and "they are professionals".
Well it sure doesn't look that way from a reader's perspective. It looks like two journalists who (for whatever reason) fell for a very basic scam - again - and then (for whatever reason) decided to just let Intel go with a warning and a stern "could have been done better". It makes both of them look like they're missing a backbone.
And the validity of the facts in every single articles that bears their signature can be legitimately put under a major question mark. Maybe they'll skew them again because "they care too much".
BambiBoom - Sunday, June 10, 2018 - link
close,The controversy revolves around how 1., a reader defines the sometimes fine lines between obfuscation, deception, and lying- in which intention is the key component, and 2., how meaningful any of these actions are in the context of a consumer trade show.
Over the years, I've been around a number of experimental components" plasma physics, linear accelerator, landers/ rovers, aerospace, advanced imaging equipment, acoustic and electronic components. As for trade shows: aerospace, cars, and- the wildest of all of these= consumer audio gear. I listen to vinyl on vacuum tube electronics and there is no technical subset with a higher, hyperspeed cattle manure quotient than high end audio. Anything in the computer world pales to high end audio. Have a look at the claims made for interconnect cables that can cost $4,000 /m. There are home speakers systems that cost $1M, $80,000 turntables, $10,000 cartridges, and $60,000 preamplifiers < Obfuscation, deception, or lying?
The result of this tourism is that experimental /prototypes become very easy to spot. The second I saw the photos of the famous 28-core, all 5GHz rig, It screamed "experimental," prototype", and "proof of concept". There was no dazzling RGB slickness and 600FPS League of Legends videos around it there. I assumed from second two onward that it was heavily overclocked and absolutely had to be running on an extreme cooling solution through those big tubes running off to the side. That processor has to be dissipating 700-800W over a very small area. Seconds three through three thousand were calculating the cost if it became a consumer product. I'm not i that consumer group, but I know a nice couple round the corner that could use a whole stack of those.
Of course, when you're on location, you can poke around, see it from every angle, and ask questions. If I'd been in the room, I would expect Intel would not provide full and exact information to every possible and natural question as they can't give away hundreds of thousands or millions of $ of research and experimental data. As well, the test rig looks so far from a being production product, many questions could not be answered.
We're discussing a mid- level experiment designed to make dramatic and tantalizing news at a trade show and not a devious plot to fool gamers into thinking they will have 969FPS with an $800 CPU and a 140mm fan. Intel did run a 28-core processor at 5GHz on all cores. The pictures tell the entire story of a promising but unfinished experiment. Everyone is free to feel how they like about it, but I'm so used to this scenario being the case with every cutting edge technology, I don't mind. To me, it only means they're trying.
BambiBoom
close - Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - link
I'm discussing about that time when 2 tech-experienced journalists watched a show from Intel, missed all the signs of deception, and reported the news in a way that mislead almost every reader. And when the gig was up they failed to have a proper response. Their "errata" doesn't have a tenth of the pomp and passion they put into the original "fake news".Things don't happen in a void. This says one thing: for whatever reason they are soft on Intel. Dancing around the subject or flatly refusing to explain why the soft reaction just gives credence to the most plausible explanation: strong pro-Intel bias. Which is supported by past actions.
Now you write too much and *say* too little. This isn't about Intel cheating again. It's about why AT didn't caught it and why the reaction sounds more like covering up for Intel then professional journalism. And good for you that you caught it as soon as you saw it. Maybe you should write for AT and do a better job.
Oxford Guy - Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - link
Ever heard of the Sesame Score? Food for thought.virpuain@gmail.com - Saturday, June 9, 2018 - link
Not the first time Intel cheated a demo... https://youtu.be/Otcge1cn8Os?t=13Writer's Block - Monday, June 11, 2018 - link
This seems amost fraudulentOxford Guy - Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - link
Almost?I suppose Steve Jobs demoing the first Macintosh to the enthusiastic tech press (who went wild over his use of speech synthesis, on a 512K machine that wasn't the one being made available) wasn't fraudulent either.
The first Mac, for those who don't know, shipped with 128K of RAM (not expandable!), a massive reduction from the Lisa's megabyte — which necessitated a massive reduction in operating system sophistication. It certainly couldn't do speech synthesis. It couldn't even run a hard disk.
Just face it. Fraud is always going to happen because corporations do cost/benefit calculations constantly and if their managers determine the risk (cost) is trumped by the likely benefit, then...
Jobs went on to be idolized by millions for his business acumen. Apple with Jobs is clearly not even close to the only example. Apple, for instance, was given a shipment of faulty floppy drive mechanisms when Wozniak realized he could control the floppy in software and make floppy drives much more affordable to the public. The floppy company got a fatter margin for the full units so they wanted to take away the incentive for Apple to try to buy only the mechanisms by shipping them defective goods.
"The business of fraud is business."
Writer's Block - Monday, June 11, 2018 - link
Whilst I don't post often, I read AT often; the way they are dealing with Intel's claims about that chip makes them less trustworthy.Oxford Guy - Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - link
There is a price to be paid for early access and both sides know it.Oxford Guy - Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - link
In fact, be glad you're even able to voice your opinion as you have. Many sites use Disqus, which will "detect" your post as spam if you step out of the party line too much. When that happens, consider the post censored.wiyosaya - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link
sIntel caught with its underwear pulled up around its neck and still not willing to own it.I'll speculate that there are two reason for this: 1. They have an AMD counter in the works and are not yet ready to announce it.
2. They have nothing to counter AMD and are very worried about the competition.
My bet is it is 2 given that there have been less than impressive improvements in sIntel CPUs over the last several generations.
bcrumb00 - Tuesday, June 26, 2018 - link
C'mon intel. My old Pentium D 965 Extreme Edition hit 5GHz on air coolers and you need to resort to phase change cooling to hit it with this? I'll bet you AMD's new 32 core cpus can hit 6GHz+ with phase change cooling, considering they come with stock clocks at 3.4GHz...