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  • BigMamaInHouse - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    CPU shortages will be after second half of this year because AMD gonna fill the gap ;-).
  • BigMamaInHouse - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    CPU shortages will be over after second half of this year because AMD gonna fill the gap ;-).
    I hope they take this into account or they gonna left with oversupply- like AMD & Nvidia after crypto crush.
  • goatfajitas - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    The Intel shortage has companies buying their work PC's with AMD chips in higher numbers, and therefore they are on backlog too. Not too severe yet, but the usual 2 week lead times have turned into 4-6 weeks for AMD based systems for alot of OEM's
  • BigMamaInHouse - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    Good info, But maybe after 7nm part's are released AMD will continue making the current 12nm part's in GF- so the availability will be better.
  • goatfajitas - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    I am sure they will. If anything they will stick to plan or delay phaseout until inventory channels are full. Strike while Intel is weakest. Intel pulls alot of dirty tricks to try and hold leverage over OEM's but lack of stock is not one they can get away with. When corporate buyers need PC's for thier employees they need them now, cant wait 4 months for Intel production.
  • Dragonstongue - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    exactly like Athlon days, AMD had customer lined up like crazy, but, they could not supply enough AND had to deal with Intel and others being putzes about the way things were being done (Intel did not need do a damn thing, if AMD could only give 1 cpu out of 4 needed, no dirty tactic is required to prevent the sale, you sell the other 3.....

    As you stated, no matter what dirty trick or crud Intel, Nv, AMD or anyone else would play, inventory write downs (called shrink in grocery store, need sell X at Y price but no one will buy have to throw out or sell at massive discount just to open the shelves up)

    IMO Nv and Intel both need that solid #$%^#$% punch in the throat like they did to AMD (sometimes because that is life, other times because they went out of their way to #$%#$@ AMD over just to make a few $ "blood money"

    anyways.

    w/e dirty tricks they may want to play, investor folks want to know NOW not say a year or w/e down the line that you had lost X % of total product because you had to throw it away, something like that you tell investor folks NOW take the share price hit but better that then be tied up in courts and maybe lose 10x that amount (very dangerous game it certainly is.
  • nevcairiel - Saturday, April 27, 2019 - link

    Actually such investments like buying a whole new set of desktop PCs is usually planned way more then 4 months in advance, with the entire supply chain being aware of that demand.
  • RSAUser - Wednesday, May 1, 2019 - link

    The APU line will still be 12nm, so already accounted for.
  • Dragonstongue - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    to be "fair" both Nv and Intel need to be in the same position they forced AMD into many many times over the years, often enough by BS monkey wrench tactics even when they were not needed.

    I suppose in this case, is like Athlon days for Intel, with a twist, AMD had tons of customer Intel Nv played bs or w/e however even if they got 100% cpu orders in those days they could NOT meet demand, Intel did not need do a thing.
    Today, Intel is left with underused fabs forced to move product around, fix problems they knew about for decades, have had to "loosen" the design just to be able to make it to marker and even then at a higher cost higher defect rate etc.

    Perfect storm for the bad Intel (by their own making and terrible luck(s) AMD is hitting on all cylinders beating estimates of market and their own closing off last year minus 1 penny from estimates but very profitable year AND RnD funds/pay down directly (very very good 2017-2018 for AMD, terrible for progress Intel though they still make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ because of higher ASP ...

    AM4, Zen 2, Vega, Navi et al if they are "close" to expected leak performance this is truly that rare clouds lining for AMD. So they get to remake their "glory" from Athlon days which was "stolen" from them, billions of dollars down the tubes, now the tables turned (irony?) hope this means they make back a good chunk of "what was theirs" to end 2019 way further ahead (benefits everyone)
  • PaulHoule - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    I don't get why Intel just doesn't throw in the towel on integrated graphics. You can't even play league of legends with Intel integrated graphics, unless the whole point is feeding and making your team lose.

    If they got rid of the useless waste of die area, they could probably double their output of chips and then not have any shortage.

    But no, they've got phone envy and can't bear the thought that your PC could do anything better than a phone.
  • JoeyJoJo123 - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    I'm unsure if iGPUs are really the cause of any delay here, so tossing them out might not even help the node shrink process.
  • levizx - Saturday, April 27, 2019 - link

    Have you even seen the dieshots? iGPU is up to half the die, if they cut the iGPU in half, that's instantly 20% more yield.
  • GreenReaper - Tuesday, April 30, 2019 - link

    Right, well, they've been selling those iGPU-less ones, maybe that helped them.
  • RSAUser - Wednesday, May 1, 2019 - link

    Not necessarily since could be that the iGPU is fault tolerant, while the CPU could maybe have a lower fault tolerance, so could just waste wafer space.
  • DanNeely - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    Because most of their consumer CPUs go to OEMs who want to build systems as cheaply as possible; which means they want an IGP so they don't need to source a separate graphics card.

    Mainstream enthusiast systems with discrete cards aren't a big enough seller to be worth the (very large) cost of creating an additional die variant.
  • bobhumplick - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    actually im pretty sure they are gonna do just that with 2 lines of dies, one with igpu and one without. possibly just have no igpu on the die and add one on a seperate die.

    the current bios updates to the R0 stepping mean a new chip or chips is being made. while they are at it i think they are going to leave the igpu off at least one line of dies. they may already have enough to supply cpus that need an igpu. the current 9900kfp and 9700kf have the igpu turned off but its still wasted space. i think they did that to get people used to the idea and test market it (not to mention get more cpus out).

    but think about this. the igpu on the current i7's take up about 3 cores worth of space. you could make a 9900k cpu with no igpu that would be between a 7700k (quad core) and an 8700k (6 core).

    thats going to be the next i7 according to wikichpi with the next i5 being the 9700k basically wtih 8 cores 8 threads.

    and wikichip has it listed as working on current z370 boards. not having to make as many new chipsets means less demand on the 14nm node so more cpus.

    i think they can compete with that lineup (would like to see the upcoming 10 core 20 thread be the i7 instead of the i9 but...) next gen. after that who knows.

    and heat and power wont be that bad for diy builders. any dual tower air cooler can handle the 10 core if you set the power limit according to what your cooler can handle.

    my dh 15 can handle 220w very easily and keep a n 8700k delidded under 70c in just about anything but prime95 small ffts.

    so you find the max oc you can get on the 10 core or 8 core. then you set a power limit according to your cooler size. at 220w a 10 core would probalby be able to run 4.6-4.7 all core in a rendering app and in gaming it will sustain a full 5ghz all core because game threads dont use much power.

    plus no latency concerns with IF and multichip. amd will win hands down in pro work though
  • Gastec - Sunday, April 28, 2019 - link

    Why isn't there even ONE capital letter in your comment?
  • bananaforscale - Wednesday, May 1, 2019 - link

    Oh but there are, in "R0" and "IF". :D
  • nandnandnand - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    It looks like Gen11 graphics (64 execution units) and the Xe-based integrated graphics are going to be a huge improvement.

    I wouldn't count Intel out. Improving the integrated graphics is one of the easier problems they have.
  • HStewart - Thursday, May 2, 2019 - link

    I think that is understatement - 14nm does matter to Intel anymore - so they don't care what is going to happen to supply 14nm - it is minimal market for Intel for game machines.

    Gen 11 graphics is replace Integrated graphics and supposedly have speed like 1030 or even higher and Xe is in total another league. I think Xe will eventually land it self on notebooks and have performance level of desktop chips.

    But think about this is in another way - Intel has been bashed so much about 10nm and its 14nm - with billions of dollars and all the new hire smart personal, do you really think that Intel is just sitting around on behinds letting that happen. I believe they have something big coming and there is a lot rumors but they may have let them out to mislead the industry.

    Now there are other signs that something big is coming, Intel has massive movement on their fabs like getting rid of older Micron fab. Updating fabs for news.

    I would not count Intel out but keep in mind AMD is not Intel biggest threat in the long run, ARM cpu's are the bigger threat and could hit Intel where it hurts the most - so it very smart of releasing them first. But no one truly knows the performance of them and rumors are likely no where close. Also with new technology chips and changes in architexture, it very possible there will be no difference between desktop chips and mobile chips. This could be a high end laptop with Sunny Cove could performed the same as desktop.

    Intel is not stupid, but above is what I would do if I was Intel. But time will tell.
  • 0ldman79 - Tuesday, May 7, 2019 - link

    I don't know about that.

    Pretty sure Intel is still banking on 14nm for at least another year.

    Everything I've read says that the 10nm chips are going to be laptop, low performance only. Even the mobile performance line will 14nm. It's even sounding like the performance bump of Sunny Cove may be limited by lower clock speeds, so it's likely to only match the Skylake architecture in performance.

    There is supposed to be a U line on both 10nm and 14nm released this year. No desktop 10nm or even server on the horizon.

    Honestly it looks like they need to buckle down, make 14nm work absolutely as well as they can and get 7nm going, just skip 10nm entirely. Even their second, maybe third gen 10nm isn't performing. They're not going anywhere, but they're in a bit of a bind.

    They've made a few mistakes that are just going to take time to correct, that's going to hurt them for the next year or two. By then AMD will be on 7nm+ or maybe 5nm.
  • baka_toroi - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    I used to play LoL with my 4th gen iGPU. Have requirements changed that much with that game?
    Besides, most people without a discrete GPU don't game.
  • HStewart - Thursday, May 2, 2019 - link

    You do realize that people that don't game likely fill up 80% of all computers, also Gen 11 graphics replacement for integrated graphics is at speed of Nvidia 1030 or possible higher.
  • ilt24 - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    @PaulHoule

    Because most systems don't require or have a dGPU, especially with laptops. Last I saw less than 40% of client PC's (desktop + Laptops) have a dGPU.
  • PeachNCream - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    I've been gaming on iGPUs in laptops since the awful GMA 950 was made available. I put my HD 4400 to work in my current "gaming" laptop. They are slow. They do sometimes have driver problems and various limitations, but if you pick your games carefully, they can be as much of a time sink as the latest and most powerful dGPU at a fraction of the cost. And anyway, the majority of computers sold today ship with no dedicated graphics and are never upgraded either because its physically impossible or because that owner never considers it.
  • Qasar - Saturday, April 27, 2019 - link

    PeachNCream
    the games i play.. integrated graphics... just wouldnt cut it.. but i also dont game on a laptop ( dont need to be portable, and i like playing with DTS/DD 5.1 surround sound :) ) hehehehehe but i guess that largely depends on what games one likes to play....
  • ZoZo - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    "Due to obvious fiscal reasons"
    Did you mean financial reasons? Because if there are fiscal reasons, they're not obvious to me.
  • Ryan Smith - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    And that would be the wrong F word...

    Yes, financial, not fiscal. Thanks!
  • FreckledTrout - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    I really hope AMD is able to take maximum advantage of this shortage. We will all benefit if AMD can get a decent part of the market share. That will force Intel back to making the best product it can verus the stagnation they have been doing the last 4-5 years which has worked to maximize profits with little R&D.
  • FreckledTrout - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    I should note I am also hopeful Intel takes a decent amount of GPU market share from Nvidia when they have a dGPU out in 2020. We need good competition in the CPU and GPU space as things have stagnated and/or are overpriced.
  • 808Hilo - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link

    There is no CPU shortage. Intel wants to upsell you. The IT spoof of putting old, broken and unneeded business processes in sw and on servers needs to end because it severly hampers flexibility and growth and is an ecological nightmare. AMD is ahead. Many cores is the way to go for D and S. Security problems with Inteldesigns make it a faulty business desicion to buy Intel and Intel actually cannot sell all their produce. The article is propagandist. No shortage.
  • Yojimbo - Saturday, April 27, 2019 - link

    People don't buy their systems from Intel, they buy them from Lenovo, HP, Dell, etc. The overwhelming majority of people making purchases of the low cost machines affected by the shortages will never have any idea about anything Intel says in their earnings reports. Do you think Intel is lying to Dell, HP, etc., or do you think Dell, HP, etc. are complicit in the deception to suddenly not service the lowest end of the market? If Intel has no interest in supplying the low end of the market they can just exit it, they don't need to make up stories.

    It makes sense that due to Intel's continued problems with their 10 nm nodes that they have fabs tooled for 10nm that are underutilized while their 14 nm fabs are running at full capacity.
  • HStewart - Thursday, May 2, 2019 - link

    I think a lot of people live with blinders on and expect that majority of people still build their PC's. Those day have gone and most think of desktop computer has something from 80's or 90's. If you can't carry it and use it on road it is consider junk.

    I differ with you in thinking that Intel does not care about low end of computers - maybe not low end desktop - consider there investment in Foveros technology with a single fast sunny cove (10nm) CPU a long with 4 low power atom processors - this is for low end computers - but it save power when you don't need and provide enough single core power would do it. With chip that could be put on finger tip. Who knows how powerful this thing will be, I would not doubt at all, it could be replacement in Dell XPS 13 2in1 with more power and 20 plus hour battery life. I think Intel ultimate goal with Foveros / Lakefield is to complete with power savings of ARM and with power of PC.

    But I will be honest, I have not been impressed with ARM power lately, it seams I must charge my Samsung Tab S3 ever night. Maybe it just Samsung trying to make me upgrade the tablet.
  • 0ldman79 - Tuesday, May 7, 2019 - link

    Pretty sure there is.

    I don't know what their yields are on 14nm, but given they released the F cores without the iGPU and they more than doubled the transistors by moving up to 8 cores per die... I don't imagine their yields have improved. Pretty sure the shortage is because they're making larger and larger die and having worse yields.
  • Gastec - Sunday, April 28, 2019 - link

    Let there be shortage! No rush. What, you don't have enough money to take with you to the grave?
  • Tilmitt - Monday, April 29, 2019 - link

    I can't believe they can rerelease Skylake for 5 years a row and the world is still buying every CPU they can make.
  • HStewart - Thursday, May 2, 2019 - link

    I hope people realize that Q3 starts in 60 days - small amount of time in tech industry if it means entire Q3. Not sure this is real problem - I am sure vendors of notebooks and such have enough inventory to feel the demand - what is important is the Q4.
  • HStewart - Thursday, May 2, 2019 - link

    I am really questioning these items - I not seeing any actual Intel response on these predication. Only thing that seems for sure is that Notebooks on 10nm from Dell and Lenovo have been spotted to come this holiday season.

    But the bad thing about these rumors is that it makes uneducated places like WCCFtech come up with articles stating that 10nm is delayed to 2021 or even later which appears by OEM's that this is false information.

    I have no stock with any of these companies, but if I was Intel, I would be release information for damage control on misleading false information like on WCCFtech.

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