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  • neo_mouse - Thursday, June 9, 2022 - link

    Soooo, you saying there is a chance we might see and NON Pro Zen3 Threadripper??
    or is it more likely the graphics guy putting this together was too lazy to use the Threadripper Pro logo.
  • Silver5urfer - Thursday, June 9, 2022 - link

    That's the sad part I doubt there will be a Threadripper. The PCIe 5.0 chipset link on Zen 4 was downgraded to 4.0 as per TechPowerUp, so having this means they need to put a ton of redrivers on the chipset plus increasing overall cost, HEDT I think is dead. Xeon is delayed plus Intel's HEDT plans rumors were saying W class processors which are not X series for Enthusiasts unfortunate really.
  • neo_mouse - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link

    it's a sad day for any enthusiasts that want to add more than one add-in-card and have lanes to drive it. "oh you want PCIe lanes to run that network card" buy a Xeon or a Threadripper Pro, ya I know we USED to offer that, but you know."
  • Khanan - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link

    Such nonsense, you have more than enough to add multiple cards, please don’t exaggerate. Otherwise feel free to buy Threadripper Pro
  • mode_13h - Saturday, June 11, 2022 - link

    > That's the sad part I doubt there will be a Threadripper.

    Threadripper Zen4 is right there, in the slide. I think the reason they're not saying anything about TR for Zen5 is just because it's so far out.

    > HEDT I think is dead.

    Depends on what you mean by HEDT. Currently, the price gap between desktop and workstation platforms is too big for simple power users. So, that puts it out of consideration, for many enthusiasts without really deep pockets.

    I guess we've been spoiled, in a way. I remember when workstations had exotic RISC CPUs and started at probably around $5k and would easily go up to $100k. I guess we're reverting back to that, a little bit. Certainly, if you load one up with HPC-grade compute cards, you can get north of $50k.
  • hansmuff - Monday, June 13, 2022 - link

    .. but then you're a bit more than an enthusiast, right? HPC-grade compute cards aren't something you would use for anything but money-making professional use.
  • mode_13h - Tuesday, June 14, 2022 - link

    Yeah, that's my point. I was saying that we were spoiled by workstations becoming almost vanilla PCs, for a time. That made them very affordable.

    Once core counts really started to climb, so did CPU prices. And then the motherboards became even more of a specialty item. Now, the only way you can justify the cost of a proper workstation is if you need it for business purposes.
  • TomWomack - Monday, July 18, 2022 - link

    Remember that the second-hand market exists; if you want a dual 20-core Xeon Gold workstation with 384GB RAM, a 1080Ti and a couple of terabytes of NVMe SSD, bargainhardware.co.uk will get you one delivered within the week for £3300.
  • Ryan Smith - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link

    AMD seems to be very happy with Threadripper being positioned as a premium workstation part. It has been selling exceptionally well (despite being tied so close to a single OEM), and this avoids an earlier problem they were having of OEMs using the cheaper OG Threadripper.

    At the end of the day, the extra cores and I/O of Threadripper are valuable enough in the workstation market that AMD seemingly doesn't see a benefit to releasing cheaper products with those same features.
  • mode_13h - Saturday, June 11, 2022 - link

    > the graphics guy putting this together was too lazy to use the Threadripper Pro logo.

    The "Threadripper" text is small enough that they probably thought it'd be too much of a squeeze to add Pro.
  • Mikewind Dale - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link

    It's also possible that once the ThreadRipper is discontinued and only the ThreadRipper Pro remains, the ThreadRipper Pro will just become the ThreadRipper.
  • Unashamed_unoriginal_username_x86 - Thursday, June 9, 2022 - link

    "and up to a 15% performance uplight in single-threaded IPC performance."
    this doesn't make any sense, it says ">15% Single-Thread Uplift" in the article you link and you contradict it immediately below
  • wrkingclass_hero - Thursday, June 9, 2022 - link

    Up to 15% IPC (instruction per clock) improvement, but it will also be clocked higher, so it will be greater than 15% in total single threaded performance.
  • Yojimbo - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link

    "AMD is expecting 8-10% IPC gains over Zen 3, on top of their previously announced clockspeed gains. As a result, the company is expecting single-threaded performance to improve by at least 15%, and by even more for multi-threaded workloads."

    8-10% IPC, but it will be clocked higher, so it will have greater than 15% in performance uplift.
  • Sttm - Thursday, June 9, 2022 - link

    So if Zen 4 is a 15% bump, and the 5800X3D was a 15% bump, gaming performance should be similar and if you should just buy a 5800X3D and save the platform cost right?
  • techjunkie123 - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link

    I think zen 4 is going to be a 15-25% ST jump, and 20-40% MT jump. Most importantly, this is going to apply across most workloads, unlike X3D, which is only helpful is some applications (like gaming). I would expect higher tier Zen 4 to beat out the 5800X3D, and lower tier skus to maybe tie it. So it would depend on what you want out of the build. AM5 would be more future proof, since you can just upgrade to zen 5 later on.

    Also note that there will be zen 4 plus v cache at some point next year. That should be 10-15% bump over regular zen 4.
  • Yojimbo - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link

    No, Zen 4 will not have a 15-25% jump in ST.
  • techjunkie123 - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link

    9% IPC increase plus 10% frequency (5.0 to 5.5 Ghz) increase equals 20% better ST.
  • Khanan - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link

    In reality it depends on the game. The 5800X3D is a god tier CPU in some games where the extra L3 cache makes it ultra fast, but one thing is sure, the 7800X3D will beat it.
  • IBM760XL - Saturday, June 11, 2022 - link

    The downside of that is you'd have to buy a new mobo and rebuild if you wanted to upgrade your CPU (to a 7800X3D, 8800X3D, etc.) later on.

    With AMD's long-term platform support, I'd probably buy the new platform, and have the upgradeability down the line, unless there was a really good deal on the old one.
  • Silver5urfer - Thursday, June 9, 2022 - link

    "but their current roadmap makes it clear that we should, at a minimum, expect a successor to the the Ryzen 7 5800X3D." Zen 4 X3D is confirmed ? I'm doubting it, but if they plan to axe AM5 then they might do a refresh like that and release it, otherwise why would they release again ? Gaming not again sigh. X3D already is a locked down chip cannot even undervolt.

    I think everything is too new and lot of information, but at-least the bs rumors are not there anymore esp from that mlid and other scammers on youtube.
  • Shorty_ - Thursday, June 9, 2022 - link

    the last image on the page where it has 7000 series "Zen 4" 3D V-cache.
  • techjunkie123 - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link

    I read on the server apu page that they are flipping the cache and the compute tiles (the latter is now above the former). This design might help alleviate the problems that the first gen design had with heat and I wouldn't be surprised if the CPUs can boost much higher than zen 3. Maybe not over locking though.
  • AdrianBc - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link

    For some reason, it seems that someone at AMD likes to have project names that use the same initials as some project names of the competitors.

    The AMD "Granite Ridge" will overlap in time at least partially with the Intel "Granite Rapids", which is supposed to be launched in the second half of 2024.

    In the past there have been several competing NVIDIA and AMD GPUs with the same initials, e.g. Pascal - Polaris, Volta - Vega.
  • Khanan - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link

    Interesting I noticed this as well, the thing with ridge vs lakes, for example. The V vs V is new to me though, good find.
  • mode_13h - Saturday, June 11, 2022 - link

    > "Granite Ridge" will overlap in time at least partially with the Intel "Granite Rapids"

    I feel like that's probably coincidence, since the two product lines aren't competing ones.

    > there have been several competing NVIDIA and AMD GPUs with the same initials

    Yup. And you forgot: Ampere - Arcturus, Aldebaran

    It falls apart with Navi vs. Turing, though. Maybe Nvidia was going to use a N-name and switched to Turing, after AMD already committed to Navi.
  • mode_13h - Saturday, June 11, 2022 - link

    Here are the code names of AMD's Zen-based desktop CPUs:
    * Zen1 - Summit Ridge
    * Zen+ - Pinnacle Ridge
    * Zen2 - Matisse
    * Zen3 - Vermeer
    * Zen4 - Raphael
    * Zen5 - Granite Ridge

    So, for whatever reason, it seems they've simply opted to switch back to Ridge names, for the desktop. If they'd never used Ridge names, then you might have a stronger argument.
  • PeachNCream - Monday, June 13, 2022 - link

    They could call it Poop Ridge for all anyone cares as long as it hits performance, price, and supply targets.
  • mode_13h - Tuesday, June 14, 2022 - link

    That'd be nice.
  • Ashinjuka - Tuesday, June 14, 2022 - link

    remember when Company X was the top of the CPU performance chart, instead of Company Y or Company Z?

    Poopridge Farm remembers.
  • alufan - Thursday, June 16, 2022 - link

    I just think we are living in a fantastic period right now, Intel held us to ransom for years with high prices and frequent board changes because AMD were frankly below par, Zen has really had a very seismic effect on the whole computer chip field and the progress we have witnessed since 2017 has been exceptional, we now live in an age where I can have a 16 core 32 thread 5ghz processor in my desktop, let that sink in and then cast your minds back to 2017 and work out the cost your similarly specced PC would have been then.
    AMD came along guns blazing and Intel has responded, we are now seeing tit for tat increases from each side with sensible prices, we the consumer are spoiled and its great, note however Intel seems to be going back to chipset changes whereas AMD have a longer term solution, even allowing first gen boards to run 5k series processors.
  • mode_13h - Thursday, June 16, 2022 - link

    > Intel held us to ransom for years with high prices and frequent board changes

    Intel CPUs did come down in price/perf, but they change boards just as frequently (new socket every 2 years) and actually the new DDR5/PCIe 5 motherboards are quite expensive.

    > AMD came along guns blazing and Intel has responded

    Sadly, the race has resulted in CPUs burning a lot more power. Intel was on a nice downward trend, until competition from AMD and their stalled 14 nm process forced them to build very inefficient, high-clocking processors.

    Intel began the decade on a very nice trend. Gulftown CPUs burned up to 130 W, Sandybridge dropped this to 95 W, and Ivy Bridge to 77 W. Then, Intel started to reverse course, with Haswell going back up to 84 W and Skylake to 91 W. With Coffee Lake's additional cores, they had to go up to 95 W and now Alder Lake has a base power figure of 125 W.

    AMD has done better, but we know Zen 4 is going to be a significant jump in base power, as they now have to respond to Golden Cove and an Intel process node that doesn't completely suck (i.e. Intel 7).

    > AMD have a longer term solution, even allowing first gen boards to run 5k series processors.

    There's limited value in that. You have only PCIe 3 bus and slower DDR4 speeds are probably going to choke any Zen 3 CPU with more than 8 cores.

    If you space out your upgrades by at least 2 processor generations, you typically want to get a new motherboard & RAM, anyhow. It's only where people start with a CPU that's also lower-tier that upgrading within 2 generations even makes any sense.
  • BushLin - Thursday, June 16, 2022 - link

    Your argument is logical and based on facts but for every generation there was always a more power efficient, non-flagship option if that's what you want. I think the current top end socketed Intel "35w" CPU is the i9-12900T. It's often not hard to disable turbo and not particularly technical to undervolt and/or underclock on most motherboards either... But generally I agree with the sentiment.
    If you care about getting value and not having what is essentially a factory overclock, AMD is probably has the better options at the moment.
    And yes Apple fanboys, the Macbook Air is actually good value overall if it fits your use case and can live with the downsides of no upgrades or repairing yourself.

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