For something this small and with such limited ports a dedicated power port on top of being able to support USB-PD would be nice. You couldn't even use 3 displays unless you had a USB dock or a Monitor with a USB-C input that provided PD. I'm sure the soldered-down memory and M.2 2230 size are due to the form factor but I don't think it's a worth while trade off. A slightly bigger mini-pc device with So-Dimms and a standard m.2 slot is still small enough.
I think the greater point is basically so much in so little space at an affordable price. Computers have come far even from their personal computing days.
This is best combined with a monitor that has USB-C input and PD output.
Soldered RAM is better in this case, because SODIMM is stuck at 4800, where as this LPDDR5 is hitting 6400. Faster RAM helps the RDNA2 GPU on this chip significantly. Just get the 32GB model and you don't have to worry about future proofing.
Having a m.2 2280 slot would be nice, but unnecessary when there are just so many other Ryzen based SFF out there that have exactly what you want.
Exactly. For commodity PC's like this (sub-$500) soldered components are a reasonable tradeoff if it is effectively required to make the footprint work, while also increasing performance over SODIMMs.
Unfortunately, big fruit has made this trend a net negative by overcharging for mild storage\memory upgrades, preventing people from adopting more future-proof PC's. I believe the Mac Mini M2 512GB adds $200 over the 256GB, and adds a whopping $500 for the 16GB RAM over the 8GB RAM. Seriously, the system more than doubles in price to get half a TB of storage and entry-level spec RAM.
EM680 isn't even that expensive in its top configuration, which is the amazing part. 16GB RAM + 512GB SSD: $399 32GB RAM + 512GB SSD: $449 32GB RAM + 1TB SSD: $489
Their bigger computers are not bad and are better than many of those offered by others, but I do not like that (unlike for the smaller EM680 discussed here) their greater volume is not used efficiently.
Those computers are significantly bigger than a NUC, but they do not have more peripheral interfaces than a NUC. Thus their only advantage is in speed, by having a faster AMD CPU, faster DDR5 memory and a few of the other interfaces are also faster.
On the other hand, there are other small computers, e.g. Beelink GTR7, which have the same price, CPU, memory and volume under 1 L, like the Minisforum models, but which use that volume more efficiently, by providing more peripheral interfaces than Intel NUCs or Minisforum computers.
Ever since they have teased EM680 and EM780 I have been waiting with interest to discover which are the exact dimensions of the case and especially which is the length accepted for the M.2 SSD.
This computer has many good features and among all computers with a volume less than 0.3 L it comes the closest to being able to replace for many applications a computer with a volume less than 0.5 L, such as an Intel NUC (slim variant).
Nevertheless, I believe that its designers have made a major mistake by choosing a square form factor.
They should have chosen a rectangular PCB, like the traditional 2.5" a.k.a. PicoITX form factor, i.e. around 72 mm x 100 mm, for which there are computers, e.g. the Zotac P series, which also have a volume less than 0.3 L.
Because a Ryzen 7 xxxx U requires a taller cooler than the slower CPUs used by Zotac, to reach their target size they should have used a PCB smaller than PicoITX, i.e. with about the same area as the square PCB that they are using now, but nonetheless with the long side of at least 90 mm, to accommodate M.2 2280 SSDs.
In that case this computer could have been much more useful.
At equal capacity with a 2280 SSD, a 2230 SSD is much more expensive and slower. Also, someone who buys this computer is much less likely to already have a suitable SSD and the maximum available capacity will always be lower for 2230 SSDs than for 2280 SSDs.
"Slightly" bigger means almost twice the size. I don't think anyone would really run 3 monitors on this device and if they would, getting an USB-C PD monitor would be more convenient than getting an USB-C to DP/HDMI dongle with a dedicated power port, considering you will already need a USB or USB-C to RJ45 dongle to get ethernet going, which to me is a far bigger complaint than powering it through USB-C, also a pet peeve of mine is that there shouldn't be no critical connectivity ports (such as display out) on the front face of the device, imagine having a RJ45 port on the front, it's just nonsense - all display out, ports should be on the back of the device, on the front there should be kept clean of potential cables, except for maybe headphones.
All in all, I think this little box is fine for what it is if you get a USB-C to RJ45 dongle with an integrated USB hub with 3 or more ports. Also I believe two monitors on this little thing is more than enough. But as I said, if you want more, there's plenty of options from Minisforum.
That is a lot of computer packed into such a small box! I could absolutely overlook soldered RAM since that's gotten quite common anyhow these days and the 32GB option is equipped nicely enough for that problem to be pretty much mitigated for the foreseeable future. Also cats in marketing materials are a bonus!
One potential problem is the onboard wi-fi/BT. For people looking to use Linux you'd want to make sure it's supported. Unfortunately we don't know what it is.
You're going to get sacrifices when you make a palm-sized mini pc. Personally, I'd prefer something around 1-2 liters, wide like a DVD player with plenty of ports.
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19 Comments
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kpb321 - Thursday, June 8, 2023 - link
For something this small and with such limited ports a dedicated power port on top of being able to support USB-PD would be nice. You couldn't even use 3 displays unless you had a USB dock or a Monitor with a USB-C input that provided PD. I'm sure the soldered-down memory and M.2 2230 size are due to the form factor but I don't think it's a worth while trade off. A slightly bigger mini-pc device with So-Dimms and a standard m.2 slot is still small enough.Threska - Thursday, June 8, 2023 - link
I think the greater point is basically so much in so little space at an affordable price. Computers have come far even from their personal computing days.meacupla - Thursday, June 8, 2023 - link
This is best combined with a monitor that has USB-C input and PD output.Soldered RAM is better in this case, because SODIMM is stuck at 4800, where as this LPDDR5 is hitting 6400. Faster RAM helps the RDNA2 GPU on this chip significantly.
Just get the 32GB model and you don't have to worry about future proofing.
Having a m.2 2280 slot would be nice, but unnecessary when there are just so many other Ryzen based SFF out there that have exactly what you want.
nandnandnand - Thursday, June 8, 2023 - link
In the future, all mini PCs are going to use soldered, or CAMM if that takes off. Hopefully it does.FMinus - Friday, June 9, 2023 - link
I'm fine with soldered things as long as they offer nice options and the price is kept sane.Samus - Saturday, June 10, 2023 - link
Exactly. For commodity PC's like this (sub-$500) soldered components are a reasonable tradeoff if it is effectively required to make the footprint work, while also increasing performance over SODIMMs.Unfortunately, big fruit has made this trend a net negative by overcharging for mild storage\memory upgrades, preventing people from adopting more future-proof PC's. I believe the Mac Mini M2 512GB adds $200 over the 256GB, and adds a whopping $500 for the 16GB RAM over the 8GB RAM. Seriously, the system more than doubles in price to get half a TB of storage and entry-level spec RAM.
meacupla - Saturday, June 10, 2023 - link
EM680 isn't even that expensive in its top configuration, which is the amazing part.16GB RAM + 512GB SSD: $399
32GB RAM + 512GB SSD: $449
32GB RAM + 1TB SSD: $489
Lonyo - Thursday, June 8, 2023 - link
They offer those as well, so just buy one of those instead.meacupla - Thursday, June 8, 2023 - link
more specifically, the UM790 Pro, UM690, UM590, UM773 Lite, UM560, UM580, HX99G, HX90M, HX80, to name a few.AdrianBc - Friday, June 9, 2023 - link
Their bigger computers are not bad and are better than many of those offered by others, but I do not like that (unlike for the smaller EM680 discussed here) their greater volume is not used efficiently.Those computers are significantly bigger than a NUC, but they do not have more peripheral interfaces than a NUC. Thus their only advantage is in speed, by having a faster AMD CPU, faster DDR5 memory and a few of the other interfaces are also faster.
On the other hand, there are other small computers, e.g. Beelink GTR7, which have the same price, CPU, memory and volume under 1 L, like the Minisforum models, but which use that volume more efficiently, by providing more peripheral interfaces than Intel NUCs or Minisforum computers.
AdrianBc - Friday, June 9, 2023 - link
Ever since they have teased EM680 and EM780 I have been waiting with interest to discover which are the exact dimensions of the case and especially which is the length accepted for the M.2 SSD.This computer has many good features and among all computers with a volume less than 0.3 L it comes the closest to being able to replace for many applications a computer with a volume less than 0.5 L, such as an Intel NUC (slim variant).
Nevertheless, I believe that its designers have made a major mistake by choosing a square form factor.
They should have chosen a rectangular PCB, like the traditional 2.5" a.k.a. PicoITX form factor, i.e. around 72 mm x 100 mm, for which there are computers, e.g. the Zotac P series, which also have a volume less than 0.3 L.
Because a Ryzen 7 xxxx U requires a taller cooler than the slower CPUs used by Zotac, to reach their target size they should have used a PCB smaller than PicoITX, i.e. with about the same area as the square PCB that they are using now, but nonetheless with the long side of at least 90 mm, to accommodate M.2 2280 SSDs.
In that case this computer could have been much more useful.
At equal capacity with a 2280 SSD, a 2230 SSD is much more expensive and slower. Also, someone who buys this computer is much less likely to already have a suitable SSD and the maximum available capacity will always be lower for 2230 SSDs than for 2280 SSDs.
FMinus - Friday, June 9, 2023 - link
"Slightly" bigger means almost twice the size. I don't think anyone would really run 3 monitors on this device and if they would, getting an USB-C PD monitor would be more convenient than getting an USB-C to DP/HDMI dongle with a dedicated power port, considering you will already need a USB or USB-C to RJ45 dongle to get ethernet going, which to me is a far bigger complaint than powering it through USB-C, also a pet peeve of mine is that there shouldn't be no critical connectivity ports (such as display out) on the front face of the device, imagine having a RJ45 port on the front, it's just nonsense - all display out, ports should be on the back of the device, on the front there should be kept clean of potential cables, except for maybe headphones.All in all, I think this little box is fine for what it is if you get a USB-C to RJ45 dongle with an integrated USB hub with 3 or more ports. Also I believe two monitors on this little thing is more than enough. But as I said, if you want more, there's plenty of options from Minisforum.
PeachNCream - Thursday, June 8, 2023 - link
That is a lot of computer packed into such a small box! I could absolutely overlook soldered RAM since that's gotten quite common anyhow these days and the 32GB option is equipped nicely enough for that problem to be pretty much mitigated for the foreseeable future. Also cats in marketing materials are a bonus!DigitalFreak - Thursday, June 8, 2023 - link
Thanks to the Steam Deck, there seems to be a few 1TB and 2TB 2230 SSDs now.Zim - Friday, June 9, 2023 - link
One potential problem is the onboard wi-fi/BT. For people looking to use Linux you'd want to make sure it's supported. Unfortunately we don't know what it is.nicolaim - Friday, June 9, 2023 - link
We're in 2023, and this thing has only one free USB-C port...FrankSchwab - Saturday, June 10, 2023 - link
Here you go:https://www.amazon.com/Minisopuru-Splitter-Multipo...
So how much larger do you think they'd have to make the case to add four more USB-C ports on for you?
nandnandnand - Saturday, June 10, 2023 - link
You're going to get sacrifices when you make a palm-sized mini pc. Personally, I'd prefer something around 1-2 liters, wide like a DVD player with plenty of ports.GracenButler - Friday, June 16, 2023 - link
thank you for your advice