This is very impressive from Valve. I understand when they say this is the definitive Steam Deck. Valve should talk to Qualcomm and switch to ARM. The Snapdragon X Elite would have made the Steam Deck an all day gaming device. Valve just switch to Steam OS on ARM early.
Whatever aaa that can fit in the 4-5w thermal envelope of a phone and still get 720p 30fps low settings. Make it use 20w like the deck and ypu'll get better textures and maybe even new aaa.
The Snapdragon X Elite GPU is only competitive in a high-TDP scenario. The Demo B benchmarks that would mostly reflect the real-world performance in something like the Steamdeck are good but may not be good enough for a dedicated gaming device. I'm sure Valve put a lot of consideration into using the X Elite SoC with this revision and it is telling that they passed on it.
Its based on 3dmark wildlofe extreme. But if you want you can lookup comparisons of grid autosport, alien isolation or wreckfest. Somegadgetguy on youtube did one with a deck and a gaming phone.
Snapdragon X Elite is for Microsoft Windows based devices so maybe that was on commission for MS or there's some exclusivity agreement in place that may limit that X elite to Windows Only. The Oryon cores are not limited to just the Snapdragon Elite so the handheld gaming market is about to get interesting very soon.
There's no world where a product that still doesn't have Vulkan drivers on Windows and has poor x86-64 support on Linux will launch while AMD is providing reasonable SKUs.
That is a 2-year product development gamble that literally no one can justify in this modern era of interest rates, though it might've been gambled on and funded 2 years ago.
They wouldn't, ARM is not more efficient than x86. It wouldn't be compatible with anything and the efficiency would be rubbish and you wouldn't pay $1500 for it.
Practically any test that does not run on ASICs, Apple's so-called efficient socs go from 100w stressing only the CPU, discharging in 1-2 hours, nothing different from mobile x86 socs with the disadvantage of needing to run via emulation practically everything.
There are special cases where Apple may seem more efficient, but this is due to the combination of software and hardware control, and a lot of expensive moves like massive chips and 256-bit LPDDR memory systems, this works because they have their loyal zombies that go paying for expensive products that deliver a limited ecosystem (for the vast majority.)
The evidence that you are wrong is pervasive. I don’t know why you wasted everyone’s time with this comment. It’s okay to not like Apple and there are many legitimate arguments to be against any number of Apple’s products and practices.
But the CPU cores are superior by a significant amount. They match the top Intel and AMD desktops in all out no matter the power performance across workloads. Add in the efficiency and it’s game over. AMD is not that far off in efficiency at low power. But for highest performance their efficiency fall far behind.
He's correct. ARM is not inherently more efficient than x86, especially given the trend towards creating larger cores that replicate earlier stages of modern x86 implementations.
Intel often lags behind in the manufacturing process, which can lead to inefficiencies. On the other hand, AMD's APUs are designed with a broader target audience in mind, covering various price segments, instead of exclusively concentrating on creating the largest chip with a focus on ultra-premium efficiency. It wouldn't generate sufficient sales to recover the hundreds of millions invested in its design, and it would also consume valuable manufacturing capacity at TSMC.
The key observation here is that with the transistor budget that Apple employs, it would be feasible to incorporate around 64 Zen4 cores alongside a high-end GPU.
Restrict this setup in comparison to the 145 watts, which is the maximum power consumption of the M2 Max, and you'll be able to determine which option is more efficient: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-16...
Valve are still using a MIPI interface for their Display which means no VRR (Variable Refresh Rate) and no default landscape orientation. The Refresh Rate can be manually adjusted and locked at a fixed refresh rate upto 90Hz.
Misleading on the default landscape orientation. SteamOS thanks to Proton, unlike Windows, properly handles all games on a rotated display. So there is literally no difference in running games on it versus a native landscape display.
I really want one of these, but I have absolutely no need for one. I tend to play keyboard/mouse games so I'm not even sure how that would work on a thing like this.
That new APU at 6nm is the PCIe Lanes to the M2 NVM/SSD still PCIe 3.0 or is that PCIe 4.0 Instead? And even though the Steam Deck has no USB4/40Gbs port it can be used with an eGPU if one gets an M.2 to OCuLink adapter but the OS will have to be run from A USB stick instead.
But the bandwidth for OCuLink on a PCIe 3.0/X4(M.2) interface is limited to around 40Gbs while if that same x4 PCIe interface was PCIe 4.0 then that would provide about 64Gbs of bandwidth. But really the folks Online are not focusing enough attention on the SSD interface specifications for the Steam Deck OLED edition.
So the Original Steam Deck was tested on YouTube with an eGPU(Portable Radeon 7600M XT GPD eGPU that supports OCuLink) m.2 to OCuLink adapter and had really nice performance there even with the total bandwidth limited to PCIe 3.0/X4.
Since the hardware is intended as a portable decive and tying it to a m.2 adapter to kludge a desktop GPU into the mix would make it effectively a chained-in-place console, I would expect barely anyone would care to invest in that use case.
Keep in mind, FWtrampoline is a user absolutely infatuated with OCuLink and the in win chompin, and regularly posts drivel to WCCFtech. He will defend OCuLink like its his firstborn, regardless of its issues, and insist there is a conspiracy meant to keep it down as the superior interface.
To actually have and allow folks here to attack and Attempt to intimidate and not have those posts removed is ridiculous! And still to this Day no one in the Tech Press has Thought to look at the Steam Deck OLED to see if that's PCIe 4.0 or still PCIe 3.0 for the M.2 slot and they have the OLED device in their possession.
And really What's the matter with OCuLink as that comes from the very Standards Organization that's responsible for PCI and PCIe and the PCI-SIG folks are not someone to be ignored there. And look how OCuLink just slots right in there to any M.2 slot to extend that PCIe outside the case and no waiting for any TB5 or USB-4v2 protocol/controller IP to be adopted years later with OCuLink.
There is now one Mini Desktop PC maker that has a design that offers 2, M.2 PCIe 4.0 X4 slots whereby one of the M.2 slots has an OEM supplied M.2 to OCuLink Adapter that provides the end user with either a second M.2/NVM SSD option, or with that adapter, a nice case flush OCuLink Port instead and 64Gbs OCuLink connectivity.
So Try and at least answer both questions with the primary one being does the Steam Deck OLED still use PCIe 3.0 on its M.2 connection or does that support PCIe 4.0 instead!
Really you and one other are now astro-turfing here as that eGPU usage is a valid usage for any Handheld gaming devices. And look at the ASUS Ally's solution that's partially proprietary but that device lacks any USB4/TB4 connectivity by design in favor of that semi-proprietary eGPU Plug/Port instead.
And so The Steam Deck has an M.2 port but supports more than just an m.2/NVMe SSD and so why not when not on the Go make use of that even if one has to run Windows there for that use case because Steam OS currently lacks the support for eGPUs. Maybe the Chimera OS folks can solve that or maybe it's some unrelated issue. The Linux Kernel sure supports OCuLink as the Server Industry has been utilizing OCuLink for ages even though OCulink was originally envisioned by PCI-SIG for consumer market usage.
And now both GPD and One other have handhelds that support OCuLink connected eGPU solutions and both GPD and one Other now have Portable eGPUs that utilize a Radeon 7600M XT eGPU with that one other even offering some M.2 slot on the portable eGPU solution as well as the Radeon 7600M XT.
Calm down and take my comment independently of your need to defend yourself from another person's response. You're redirecting aggression and it's sort of silly.
It's not independently there as what you are trying to do is Dox there and also intimidate and there are definite legal implications to that. You have already done that several times in that past but the lack of moderation here is not catching that nor is there the ability to flag posts either. You are the one instigating that here and you need to be stopped at the IP address level from posting here. There's no way to block you either so that makes moderation more necessary here with you for each and every time you have violated the rules here!
Presumably the thumb sticks will be as easy to replace, but does anyone know if Valve went with hall effect sticks yet? If not, then I'd rather go with a native Windows competitor device that doesn't need proton.
It is indeed. The official spec is 110% of DCI, though the one set of third-party measurements that have been published found 101%. Unfortunately, no one has published a chromaticity diagram showing where it's exceeding DCI.
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KimGitz - Friday, November 10, 2023 - link
This is very impressive from Valve. I understand when they say this is the definitive Steam Deck.Valve should talk to Qualcomm and switch to ARM. The Snapdragon X Elite would have made the Steam Deck an all day gaming device.
Valve just switch to Steam OS on ARM early.
KimGitz - Friday, November 10, 2023 - link
The Steam Deck OLED 512GB model is $549Hifihedgehog - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
Take my money.gifFlunk - Friday, November 10, 2023 - link
And no proton support, meaning no Windows games. Proton is only supported on x64 architecture.FWhitTrampoline - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
box86 and box64!iphonebestgamephone - Sunday, November 12, 2023 - link
And it'll still jave good perf and battery life with x86 emulation?TheinsanegamerN - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
Nowhere near ready for prime time.nandnandnand - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
lol noyannigr2 - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
AHAHAHA!!!! switch to Snapdragon? turn something great and successful, to something half useless? To play what? Candy Crush at 500 fps? Great idea.iphonebestgamephone - Sunday, November 12, 2023 - link
No, probably somethimg like the bunch of aaa titles you are starting to get on ios.Dante Verizon - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
* old AAA titles with worse textures and bugs.iphonebestgamephone - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
Whatever aaa that can fit in the 4-5w thermal envelope of a phone and still get 720p 30fps low settings. Make it use 20w like the deck and ypu'll get better textures and maybe even new aaa.Samus - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
The Snapdragon X Elite GPU is only competitive in a high-TDP scenario. The Demo B benchmarks that would mostly reflect the real-world performance in something like the Steamdeck are good but may not be good enough for a dedicated gaming device. I'm sure Valve put a lot of consideration into using the X Elite SoC with this revision and it is telling that they passed on it.iphonebestgamephone - Sunday, November 12, 2023 - link
Considering the gpu in the 8+g1 is already competitive with the deck at low tdp, hard to see the x elite not be.TheinsanegamerN - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
Based on mobile game benchmarks.Show me a 8 gen 1 performing decently on steam games. I'll wait.
iphonebestgamephone - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
Its based on 3dmark wildlofe extreme. But if you want you can lookup comparisons of grid autosport, alien isolation or wreckfest. Somegadgetguy on youtube did one with a deck and a gaming phone.FWhitTrampoline - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
Snapdragon X Elite is for Microsoft Windows based devices so maybe that was on commission for MS or there's some exclusivity agreement in place that may limit that X elite to Windows Only. The Oryon cores are not limited to just the Snapdragon Elite so the handheld gaming market is about to get interesting very soon.lmcd - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
There's no world where a product that still doesn't have Vulkan drivers on Windows and has poor x86-64 support on Linux will launch while AMD is providing reasonable SKUs.That is a 2-year product development gamble that literally no one can justify in this modern era of interest rates, though it might've been gambled on and funded 2 years ago.
shing3232 - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
it s pointless to use arm on steam deck. Might as well just use AndroidDante Verizon - Sunday, November 12, 2023 - link
They wouldn't, ARM is not more efficient than x86. It wouldn't be compatible with anything and the efficiency would be rubbish and you wouldn't pay $1500 for it.iphonebestgamephone - Sunday, November 12, 2023 - link
What tests are you referring to when you claim arm is not more efficent than x86?lemurbutton - Sunday, November 12, 2023 - link
The AMD fanboy test of course - Cinebench R23. Just the old version. The one hand-optimized for x86 and incredibly favorable to Zen.Dante Verizon - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
The ignorance of this comment does not require a response. It's embarrassing just to see it.Dante Verizon - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
Practically any test that does not run on ASICs, Apple's so-called efficient socs go from 100w stressing only the CPU, discharging in 1-2 hours, nothing different from mobile x86 socs with the disadvantage of needing to run via emulation practically everything.There are special cases where Apple may seem more efficient, but this is due to the combination of software and hardware control, and a lot of expensive moves like massive chips and 256-bit LPDDR memory systems, this works because they have their loyal zombies that go paying for expensive products that deliver a limited ecosystem (for the vast majority.)
The Hardcard - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
The evidence that you are wrong is pervasive. I don’t know why you wasted everyone’s time with this comment. It’s okay to not like Apple and there are many legitimate arguments to be against any number of Apple’s products and practices.But the CPU cores are superior by a significant amount. They match the top Intel and AMD desktops in all out no matter the power performance across workloads. Add in the efficiency and it’s game over. AMD is not that far off in efficiency at low power. But for highest performance their efficiency fall far behind.
Terry_Craig - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
He's correct. ARM is not inherently more efficient than x86, especially given the trend towards creating larger cores that replicate earlier stages of modern x86 implementations.Intel often lags behind in the manufacturing process, which can lead to inefficiencies. On the other hand, AMD's APUs are designed with a broader target audience in mind, covering various price segments, instead of exclusively concentrating on creating the largest chip with a focus on ultra-premium efficiency. It wouldn't generate sufficient sales to recover the hundreds of millions invested in its design, and it would also consume valuable manufacturing capacity at TSMC.
The key observation here is that with the transistor budget that Apple employs, it would be feasible to incorporate around 64 Zen4 cores alongside a high-end GPU.
Restrict this setup in comparison to the 145 watts, which is the maximum power consumption of the M2 Max, and you'll be able to determine which option is more efficient: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-16...
Dante Verizon - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
Yeah, Apple's best chip uses basically the same transistor budget as the mi300x with 19456 shaders and 24 Zen4 cores.iphonebestgamephone - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
What about the other arm chips then, qualcomm in phones or the ampere server chips?iphonebestgamephone - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
So any links?Piotrek54321 - Friday, November 10, 2023 - link
No one knows if it's going to finally support adaptive sync?dwillmore - Friday, November 10, 2023 - link
My understanding is "no" as it still used MIPI for the display and not eDP. But that's just what I heard.meacupla - Friday, November 10, 2023 - link
Yeah, it's probably the same screen used in Switch OLED.KimGitz - Friday, November 10, 2023 - link
Valve are still using a MIPI interface for their Display which means no VRR (Variable Refresh Rate) and no default landscape orientation.The Refresh Rate can be manually adjusted and locked at a fixed refresh rate upto 90Hz.
Hifihedgehog - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
Misleading on the default landscape orientation. SteamOS thanks to Proton, unlike Windows, properly handles all games on a rotated display. So there is literally no difference in running games on it versus a native landscape display.dwillmore - Friday, November 10, 2023 - link
I really want one of these, but I have absolutely no need for one. I tend to play keyboard/mouse games so I'm not even sure how that would work on a thing like this.But I do love HDR OLED displays.
Threska - Friday, November 10, 2023 - link
Gyro make difference.dwillmore - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
Sorry, what?quorm - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GyrosHifihedgehog - Sunday, November 12, 2023 - link
https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Gyro_GearlooseFWhitTrampoline - Saturday, November 11, 2023 - link
That new APU at 6nm is the PCIe Lanes to the M2 NVM/SSD still PCIe 3.0 or is that PCIe 4.0 Instead? And even though the Steam Deck has no USB4/40Gbs port it can be used with an eGPU if one gets an M.2 to OCuLink adapter but the OS will have to be run from A USB stick instead.But the bandwidth for OCuLink on a PCIe 3.0/X4(M.2) interface is limited to around 40Gbs while if that same x4 PCIe interface was PCIe 4.0 then that would provide about 64Gbs of bandwidth. But really the folks Online are not focusing enough attention on the SSD interface specifications for the Steam Deck OLED edition.
So the Original Steam Deck was tested on YouTube with an eGPU(Portable Radeon 7600M XT GPD eGPU that supports OCuLink) m.2 to OCuLink adapter and had really nice performance there even with the total bandwidth limited to PCIe 3.0/X4.
PeachNCream - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
Since the hardware is intended as a portable decive and tying it to a m.2 adapter to kludge a desktop GPU into the mix would make it effectively a chained-in-place console, I would expect barely anyone would care to invest in that use case.TheinsanegamerN - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
Keep in mind, FWtrampoline is a user absolutely infatuated with OCuLink and the in win chompin, and regularly posts drivel to WCCFtech. He will defend OCuLink like its his firstborn, regardless of its issues, and insist there is a conspiracy meant to keep it down as the superior interface.FWhitTrampoline - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
To actually have and allow folks here to attack and Attempt to intimidate and not have those posts removed is ridiculous! And still to this Day no one in the Tech Press has Thought to look at the Steam Deck OLED to see if that's PCIe 4.0 or still PCIe 3.0 for the M.2 slot and they have the OLED device in their possession.And really What's the matter with OCuLink as that comes from the very Standards Organization that's responsible for PCI and PCIe and the PCI-SIG folks are not someone to be ignored there. And look how OCuLink just slots right in there to any M.2 slot to extend that PCIe outside the case and no waiting for any TB5 or USB-4v2 protocol/controller IP to be adopted years later with OCuLink.
There is now one Mini Desktop PC maker that has a design that offers 2, M.2 PCIe 4.0 X4 slots whereby one of the M.2 slots has an OEM supplied M.2 to OCuLink Adapter that provides the end user with either a second M.2/NVM SSD option, or with that adapter, a nice case flush OCuLink Port instead and 64Gbs OCuLink connectivity.
So Try and at least answer both questions with the primary one being does the Steam Deck OLED still use PCIe 3.0 on its M.2 connection or does that support PCIe 4.0 instead!
FWhitTrampoline - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
Really you and one other are now astro-turfing here as that eGPU usage is a valid usage for any Handheld gaming devices. And look at the ASUS Ally's solution that's partially proprietary but that device lacks any USB4/TB4 connectivity by design in favor of that semi-proprietary eGPU Plug/Port instead.And so The Steam Deck has an M.2 port but supports more than just an m.2/NVMe SSD and so why not when not on the Go make use of that even if one has to run Windows there for that use case because Steam OS currently lacks the support for eGPUs. Maybe the Chimera OS folks can solve that or maybe it's some unrelated issue. The Linux Kernel sure supports OCuLink as the Server Industry has been utilizing OCuLink for ages even though OCulink was originally envisioned by PCI-SIG for consumer market usage.
And now both GPD and One other have handhelds that support OCuLink connected eGPU solutions and both GPD and one Other now have Portable eGPUs that utilize a Radeon 7600M XT eGPU with that one other even offering some M.2 slot on the portable eGPU solution as well as the Radeon 7600M XT.
PeachNCream - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
Calm down and take my comment independently of your need to defend yourself from another person's response. You're redirecting aggression and it's sort of silly.FWhitTrampoline - Tuesday, November 14, 2023 - link
It's not independently there as what you are trying to do is Dox there and also intimidate and there are definite legal implications to that. You have already done that several times in that past but the lack of moderation here is not catching that nor is there the ability to flag posts either. You are the one instigating that here and you need to be stopped at the IP address level from posting here. There's no way to block you either so that makes moderation more necessary here with you for each and every time you have violated the rules here!PeachNCream - Sunday, November 12, 2023 - link
Presumably the thumb sticks will be as easy to replace, but does anyone know if Valve went with hall effect sticks yet? If not, then I'd rather go with a native Windows competitor device that doesn't need proton.zealvix - Sunday, November 12, 2023 - link
Are you sure the dci p3 coverage is over 100%?Ryan Smith - Monday, November 13, 2023 - link
It is indeed. The official spec is 110% of DCI, though the one set of third-party measurements that have been published found 101%. Unfortunately, no one has published a chromaticity diagram showing where it's exceeding DCI.