Not sure why this is newsworthy. I don't think the average person knows or cares who makes the mouse/keyboard that comes with their PC. It's labled with the PC maker's name anyway so they probably assume that's who makes it. And those who care about having a quality mouse/keyboard tosses the OEM stuff in the garbage the moment they unbox their new PC.
Agreed. I don't know who makes them; but the various Dell branded optical mice I've used at work over the years have all worked well. They're nothing flashy, and for gaming I'd want something with a higher DPI; but they get the job done.
I have to say that ever since the move from ball to optical mice, I haven't noticed the difference between any OEM mice or low-end Logitech mice. It points. It clicks. It works.
If anything, that's the perfect reason to leave that market and focus on mid-to-high end offerings where the margins are higher and the products can differentiate more.
@DanNeely: "Agreed. I don't know who makes them; but the various Dell branded optical mice I've used at work over the years have all worked well."
The majority of Dell branded mice I've seen over the years were OEM relabeled Logitech mice. Lowend, nothing flashy, just enough to get the job done Logitech mice.
I found it a newsworthy little read. AnandTech readers are not the "average" person, and this is another data point in the bigger (and quite relevant) picture of the decline of the PC.
Partially agreed, although I think you sound a bit too gloomy. It's an interesting perspective on the evolution of the PC peripherals market and how it plays into the PC market in general. Sure, PCs are in decline, as many people simply don't need them. But gaming- and high end peripherals (and computers) are growing in popularity and sophistication. It's all a sign of a maturing product category.
And that's exactly why I approved this item. It's not huge news since it's only about OEM products, but Logitech no longer producing OEM mice? That's something Logitech has been doing just short of forever, so to exit the OEM market is a bit of a shock.
How much can Logitech make out of OEM mouse? $1? c50? They probably have to maintain much larger production facilities (or rent them in China) in order to make such high number of cheap devices that - once you pay for manufacturing costs - doesn't leave much in your pocket, if any. At least that'd be my expectation.
And then, Chinese companies which were assembling OEM Logitech products might have their own by now, might even have copied Logitech OEM... might be exactly the same mouse. For less money, since they are cutting off middle-man. Eventually, PC OEMs will stamp their own brand on these, so none would really know if they were Logitech or not, to start with.
or maybe it's because everybody can make a decent mice nowadays and so there's no profitability or growth opportunity and they want to focus on the other stuff, just like the article says. The money is in premium/gaming/ergonomic interfaces, not oem mice.
It's news because everyone who has used a PC has used either a Microsoft or Logitech based mouse at some point. These OEM mice were always far better than any other OEM brand.
For anyone hit with that lovely sense of panic, be aware that this is *OEM* mice. AKA the little crappy ones PC manufacturers bundle with new computers. They're still making all of their gaming lines of mice.
The Microsoft scroll wheel opticals are actually pretty nice. Assuming they still make them. I was getting them two or three years back with new systems, but then we switched to Dell PCs and those do come with cheap and nasties.
Actually, it might have been a Logitech with the Dells. If so, then Logitech's OEM parts where really cutting corners to get that margin. It might be better to stop producing crap under OEM if it'll dilute the brand.
They only offer three year warranties on their mice. Most bargain basement mice cost less than $5 and have lifetime warranties. So it's only natural they are exiting.
Now on the high end their mice fail too. However most people will continue buying so as to match their keyboards. If it were not for this Logitech would probably exit the mice market entirely.
Now if they simply built better quality products and gave lifetime warranties they would not have these financial troubles. Unfortunately they seem to be influenced by Harvard MBAs who think built in obsolescence is financially better. Short term profits, long term death...
A warranty on a $5 mouse where you'd have to pay $10 to ship it to the manufacturer to get your replacement might as well not exist; especially since they can probably count on 99.9% of customers forgetting about the register your purchase in 90 days requirement to get the extended warranty. They can offer the world because they know there won't be a meaningful number of claims ever made against it.
You're talking about retail products, they're exiting OEM production. This has nothing to do with any of their retail products, low-end or not.
Also, I've had a number of high-end Logitech Mice over the last 20 years and all of them have been fantastic. The ones I haven't accidentally destroyed (or been destroyed by my evil cat) lasted very well. In fact, not counting the one destroyed by my evil cat I've only need to buy 2 mice in the last 10 years.
I, like many others, have worn out the microswitches in our high-end Logitech mouse. My MX518 apparently used inferior "OMRON D2FC-F-7N" switches made in China. Eventually one began to register as a double-click and no software around could really make it usable. I replaced these switches with "OMRON D2F-01F" made in Japan. These have cured the problem. No doubt new Chinese switches would also work fine for now, but the Japanese version has a more distinctive click and I think it will last longer. Just FYI.
You've obviously had some bad experiences. My experience with Logitech is one of great quality (I've never had a Logitech product actually stop working, and I've owned and own quite a few) and exceptional customer service (as in getting a replacement for a DiNovo Media Desktop BT keyboard that I spilled soda on, resulting in a few sticky keys). Heck, my 15-year-old MX700 still works, if I bother to dig it out of storage.
My previous two mice were both high-end Logitech mice, and within a year of light (non-gaming) use, both ended up producing random double-clicks when I single-clicked. They need to learn "premium" is more than just market positioning and charging quadruple, before everyone else learns that's all they're doing.
I used to buy cheap knock-off mice - I'm looking at you, Gear Head - until it became clear the lower price was completely illusory. In my own experience, cheap brands were actually not cheap at all. They consumed batteries inordinately fast even with diligence to turn them off when unused, and loss of productivity from vastly inferior pointing control. After 3 poor quality mice I broke down and paid the extra $10 or $12 more for a high quality Logitech mouse. For me, precision pointing and very long battery life is worth it (M525, M325).
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CJ_Jacobs - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
Not sure why this is newsworthy. I don't think the average person knows or cares who makes the mouse/keyboard that comes with their PC. It's labled with the PC maker's name anyway so they probably assume that's who makes it. And those who care about having a quality mouse/keyboard tosses the OEM stuff in the garbage the moment they unbox their new PC.RazrLeaf - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
In all fairness to OEM mice, they make decent spares.DanNeely - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
Agreed. I don't know who makes them; but the various Dell branded optical mice I've used at work over the years have all worked well. They're nothing flashy, and for gaming I'd want something with a higher DPI; but they get the job done.nathanddrews - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
I have to say that ever since the move from ball to optical mice, I haven't noticed the difference between any OEM mice or low-end Logitech mice. It points. It clicks. It works.If anything, that's the perfect reason to leave that market and focus on mid-to-high end offerings where the margins are higher and the products can differentiate more.
naris - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
That's because the OEM mice probably were low end logitech mice.BurntMyBacon - Monday, January 25, 2016 - link
@naris: "That's because the OEM mice probably were low end logitech mice."Err, ... , THIS!
Don't know about some of the OEMs, but I can verify this statement for most OEM Dell mice over the years as well as a few other PC OEMs.
BurntMyBacon - Monday, January 25, 2016 - link
@DanNeely: "Agreed. I don't know who makes them; but the various Dell branded optical mice I've used at work over the years have all worked well."The majority of Dell branded mice I've seen over the years were OEM relabeled Logitech mice. Lowend, nothing flashy, just enough to get the job done Logitech mice.
NeoteriX - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
I found it a newsworthy little read. AnandTech readers are not the "average" person, and this is another data point in the bigger (and quite relevant) picture of the decline of the PC.Valantar - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
Partially agreed, although I think you sound a bit too gloomy. It's an interesting perspective on the evolution of the PC peripherals market and how it plays into the PC market in general. Sure, PCs are in decline, as many people simply don't need them. But gaming- and high end peripherals (and computers) are growing in popularity and sophistication. It's all a sign of a maturing product category.DarkXale - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
Not really. Its a pointer to the increasing prevalence of Laptops (where OEM mice aren't included), and a continuing growth in the high-end market.Logitech's Tablet accessory division declined by 35%.
stephenbrooks - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
You can get a very decent $4 mouse from Dell. Maybe Logitech were just forced out by lower-cost competitors?cjb110 - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
That Dell was probably a rebranded Logitech!BurntMyBacon - Monday, January 25, 2016 - link
@cbj110: "That Dell was probably a rebranded Logitech!"Most of them were.
Ryan Smith - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
And that's exactly why I approved this item. It's not huge news since it's only about OEM products, but Logitech no longer producing OEM mice? That's something Logitech has been doing just short of forever, so to exit the OEM market is a bit of a shock.cjb110 - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
Who are the big OEM manufactures now?Murloc - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
you can buy mouses en masse from many chinese manufacturers, I've just looked at the prices on alibaba, 0.85$/mouse.nikon133 - Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - link
That exactly.How much can Logitech make out of OEM mouse? $1? c50? They probably have to maintain much larger production facilities (or rent them in China) in order to make such high number of cheap devices that - once you pay for manufacturing costs - doesn't leave much in your pocket, if any. At least that'd be my expectation.
And then, Chinese companies which were assembling OEM Logitech products might have their own by now, might even have copied Logitech OEM... might be exactly the same mouse. For less money, since they are cutting off middle-man. Eventually, PC OEMs will stamp their own brand on these, so none would really know if they were Logitech or not, to start with.
Murloc - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
or maybe it's because everybody can make a decent mice nowadays and so there's no profitability or growth opportunity and they want to focus on the other stuff, just like the article says.The money is in premium/gaming/ergonomic interfaces, not oem mice.
Samus - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
I found it interesting as well. I can't believe people troll a tech site for posting tech-related articles. Jesus F Christ.techfreshness.com - Monday, January 25, 2016 - link
i did too sircjb110 - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
It's news because everyone who has used a PC has used either a Microsoft or Logitech based mouse at some point. These OEM mice were always far better than any other OEM brand.chrnochime - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
Yes just because you think this news is not worth posting means AT should not post it.Azethoth - Sunday, January 24, 2016 - link
Not sure why you bothered reading this interesting article or replying to it. Logitech is central to the PC industry and has been for decades.Do you really think the average person reads AnandTech?
So many questions, so little time.
Mushkins - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
For anyone hit with that lovely sense of panic, be aware that this is *OEM* mice. AKA the little crappy ones PC manufacturers bundle with new computers. They're still making all of their gaming lines of mice.Ammaross - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
Doesn't help they included a picture of a premium MX Master mouse (which obviously isn't OEM)...Flunk - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
Well, that's a shame. They were probably the only brand of OEM mice that weren't garbage.Mr Perfect - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
The Microsoft scroll wheel opticals are actually pretty nice. Assuming they still make them. I was getting them two or three years back with new systems, but then we switched to Dell PCs and those do come with cheap and nasties.Actually, it might have been a Logitech with the Dells. If so, then Logitech's OEM parts where really cutting corners to get that margin. It might be better to stop producing crap under OEM if it'll dilute the brand.
ioconnor - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
They only offer three year warranties on their mice. Most bargain basement mice cost less than $5 and have lifetime warranties. So it's only natural they are exiting.Now on the high end their mice fail too. However most people will continue buying so as to match their keyboards. If it were not for this Logitech would probably exit the mice market entirely.
Now if they simply built better quality products and gave lifetime warranties they would not have these financial troubles. Unfortunately they seem to be influenced by Harvard MBAs who think built in obsolescence is financially better. Short term profits, long term death...
DanNeely - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
A warranty on a $5 mouse where you'd have to pay $10 to ship it to the manufacturer to get your replacement might as well not exist; especially since they can probably count on 99.9% of customers forgetting about the register your purchase in 90 days requirement to get the extended warranty. They can offer the world because they know there won't be a meaningful number of claims ever made against it.Flunk - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
You're talking about retail products, they're exiting OEM production. This has nothing to do with any of their retail products, low-end or not.Also, I've had a number of high-end Logitech Mice over the last 20 years and all of them have been fantastic. The ones I haven't accidentally destroyed (or been destroyed by my evil cat) lasted very well. In fact, not counting the one destroyed by my evil cat I've only need to buy 2 mice in the last 10 years.
Arbie - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
I, like many others, have worn out the microswitches in our high-end Logitech mouse. My MX518 apparently used inferior "OMRON D2FC-F-7N" switches made in China. Eventually one began to register as a double-click and no software around could really make it usable. I replaced these switches with "OMRON D2F-01F" made in Japan. These have cured the problem. No doubt new Chinese switches would also work fine for now, but the Japanese version has a more distinctive click and I think it will last longer. Just FYI.extide - Monday, January 25, 2016 - link
Hrmmm, I wonder if those Chinese ones were fakes, I thought all OMRON switches were good/high quality.Valantar - Friday, January 22, 2016 - link
You've obviously had some bad experiences. My experience with Logitech is one of great quality (I've never had a Logitech product actually stop working, and I've owned and own quite a few) and exceptional customer service (as in getting a replacement for a DiNovo Media Desktop BT keyboard that I spilled soda on, resulting in a few sticky keys). Heck, my 15-year-old MX700 still works, if I bother to dig it out of storage.Your mileage may vary, in other words.
Michael Bay - Sunday, January 24, 2016 - link
I`ve had three G100/G100s go doubleclicking after about 8 months. Quite a lot to be a coincidence.Michael Bay - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
I`m okay with that if they fix their G100s series.hubick - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
My previous two mice were both high-end Logitech mice, and within a year of light (non-gaming) use, both ended up producing random double-clicks when I single-clicked. They need to learn "premium" is more than just market positioning and charging quadruple, before everyone else learns that's all they're doing.arrivalRate - Saturday, January 23, 2016 - link
I used to buy cheap knock-off mice - I'm looking at you, Gear Head - until it became clear the lower price was completely illusory. In my own experience, cheap brands were actually not cheap at all. They consumed batteries inordinately fast even with diligence to turn them off when unused, and loss of productivity from vastly inferior pointing control. After 3 poor quality mice I broke down and paid the extra $10 or $12 more for a high quality Logitech mouse. For me, precision pointing and very long battery life is worth it (M525, M325).techfreshness.com - Monday, January 25, 2016 - link
was anybody else as confused as me by the logitech slide?extide - Monday, January 25, 2016 - link
The percentage is how much of the market they own. The #1/2/etc is their rank in that market with their competitors.